Pay dispute at London Underground

[bluegoblin7]

Seems very reasonable and meets the RMTs concerns. The travel facility will be based on the national rail PRIV Rate.

It remains to be seen what form the priv will take, and indeed if it will actually happen. It is a commitment to investigate, and has widely been reported as the Network Rail leisure pass. This in itself may cause challenges given other TfL operators have full TOCNE facilities.

There do remain some issues/concerns around pay bands and some caps in place, which mainly affect maintenance and service control staff, although the feeling on the ground is that many of these can be resolved via other parts of the machinery.

 

[MaidaVale]

(Don't forget the weird announcement about salary sacrificing for electric cars coming in 2025. I don't know what that means for individual staff TBH as I have no understanding of salary sacrifice and the tax implications of that.)

This is the point that I've heard the most confusion about. Some people seem to think it's similar to the "Cycle to Work" scheme but with cars, which I imagine is wishful thinking. We'll see though.

 

[Thirteen]

Given how expensive electric cars are, seems a pointless perk to have.

 

[bramling]

Yes it's a good deal IMO. And for me will be double what the company initially offered when negotiations started.

The very lowest paid will be in for 11.09%

CSA2 will be 9.6%

Train ops will be 6.6%

Thereby closing the large gap that had developed between grades.

When one thinks about it, this is actually rather divisive. So person A gets 9.6%, whilst person B who has worked just as hard but in a role with more responsibility, knowledge or whatever gets just 6.6%.

I’m not sure this is particularly equitable, nor will it help attract quality people into higher-grade roles, some of which on LU have perennial vacancies (service control), or struggle to get good people (operational management).

At the end of the day, and with the best will in the world, there are a number of reasons why a driver earns more than a CSA. Someone like a driver has to work damn hard to qualify, as do service control staff, and shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about their remuneration.

The one thing that TFL does very well is bull-in-china-shop.

 

[Florence Rox]

I am in the RMT and work as a CSA at a busy tube station and am embarrassed by the whole affair. This will be funded by London taxpayers through ULEZ, congestion charging and council tax/rates. What would a majority of Londoners think this £30 million should be used for? Help fighting knife crime, making stations accessible for all or bumping up the workers wages?

 

[rmt4ever]

I am in the RMT and work as a CSA at a busy tube station and am embarrassed by the whole affair. This will be funded by London taxpayers through ULEZ, congestion charging and council tax/rates. What would a majority of Londoners think this £30 million should be used for? Help fighting knife crime, making stations accessible for all or bumping up the workers wages?

Feel free to donate your pay rise to anti knife crime charities if you want to and feel you do not need it

 

[Florence Rox]

I will be donating 50% of the extra rise to Transport for All each month once the deal has been finalised. I was surprised we were originally offered 5% and would happily have accepted it.

 

[bramling]

I am in the RMT and work as a CSA at a busy tube station and am embarrassed by the whole affair. This will be funded by London taxpayers through ULEZ, congestion charging and council tax/rates. What would a majority of Londoners think this £30 million should be used for? Help fighting knife crime, making stations accessible for all or bumping up the workers wages?

For context £30m would probably buy a handful of updates to TBTC software!

Being serious, the main reason for the pay dispute is the recent high level of inflation. This is at least partly attributable to the Covid response, of which ISTR the Mayor of London was one of the more vocal protagonists. In that sense perhaps he should bear a share of responsibility for the situation.

 

[Mawkie]

When one thinks about it, this is actually rather divisive. So person A gets 9.6%, whilst person B who has worked just as hard but in a role with more responsibility, knowledge or whatever gets just 6.6%.

I’m not sure this is particularly equitable, nor will it help attract quality people into higher-grade roles, some of which on LU have perennial vacancies (service control), or struggle to get good people (operational management).

I do accept there are 2 sides to every coin; I just think that years of flat rate percentage increases are unfair and have meant the gap between grades is too great.

To your second point regarding recruitment, let's put some numbers on those grades....

CSA2 - £33,300
CSA1 - £42,091
TRAIN OP - £68,096

I would argue that a pay uplift of up to £35k would still be an incentive, no?

 

[bramling]

I do accept there are 2 sides to every coin; I just think that years of flat rate percentage increases are unfair and have meant the gap between grades is too great.

At the end of the day, if someone in a lower-paid grade wants to increase their pay, they always have the option to apply for a higher-paid grade role. Surely that’s simply the norm in any industry or workplace? Those on higher salaries will already be taking a hit thanks to some of this government’s tax measures.

 

[winks]

Anyone got a link to a document with proposed rates ?

 

[Mawkie]

Anyone got a link to a document with proposed rates ?

The official TfL one is marked TfL Classified, so you'd have to find that internally, unless someone is willing to post (I'm not).

The RMT one is attached if that's any use.

 

[winks]

Thanks for info.

 

[D7666]

I’m not sure this is particularly equitable, nor will it help attract quality people into higher-grade roles, some of which on LU have perennial vacancies (service control), or struggle to get good people (operational management).

and

At the end of the day, if someone in a lower-paid grade wants to increase their pay, they always have the option to apply for a higher-paid grade role.

so with one comment you say higher roles are not attractive then suggest people apply for higher roles.

what was that about bull ?


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

different sub subject :

It remains to be seen what form the priv will take, and indeed if it will actually happen. It is a commitment to investigate, and has widely been reported as the Network Rail leisure pass. This in itself may cause challenges given other TfL operators have full TOCNE facilities.

As far as I can see there is not much info about this anywhere, including if it is just LU or all TfL, and being in the latter, is of potential interest if it really is a benefit.

Have to admit I have no idea what a NetworkRail leisure pass is I will go google forthwith.

EDIT
found it

 

[bramling]

and




so with one comment you say higher roles are not attractive then suggest people apply for higher roles.

what was that about bull ?

Not sure I follow the point here. If a company is struggling to fill vacancies in more expert roles (in the case of LU then both service control and train operator would be examples of such, by comparison to CSA) then obviously there needs to be decent remuneration. Increasing the pay disproportionately for less expert roles, for which by definition recruitment is always going to be easier, is hardly going to help. If anything it is more likely to encourage people to stay put in such roles.

At the end of the day it is much easier to get hold of CSAs than train operators or service control staff. So at the very least as a company you want to be doing everything possible to make the existing ones stay. Especially where you have many coming up to retirement age, so it makes sense to try and entice them to stay on as long as possible.

 

[D7666]

Not sure I follow the point here. If a company is struggling to fill vacancies in more expert roles (in the case of LU then both service control and train operator would be examples of such, by comparison to CSA) then obviously there needs to be decent remuneration. Increasing the pay disproportionately for less expert roles, for which by definition recruitment is always going to be easier, is hardly going to help. If anything it is more likely to encourage people to stay put in such roles.

so you are suggesting keep the lower pay grades on low pay just to encourage them to apply for higher pay roles ?????


why not go the whole way and cut their pay - that way by your theory they are all the more encouraged to apply for higher pay roles and hence the latter's recruitment difficulty is solved.

 

[Mawkie]

The RMT have accepted the offer, not sure about the other unions.

 

[YorkRailFan]

The RMT have accepted the offer, not sure about the other unions.

RMT members’ willingness and commitment to taking industrial action over this matter led to additional funding received from City Hall and pay talks with LUL were resumed. An improved offer was received, including an additional flat rate increase for all and further uplifts for those earning below £40,000.



A mass meeting with your RMT Reps took place last Thursday 8th February to discuss this new offer and your Lead Officer reported a strong majority of Reps in favour of accepting the offer. This matter has now been considered by the National Executive Committee, which has congratulated members on their steadfast resolve and taken the decision to inform London Underground of our acceptance of the offer. The Union will also be preparing a plan to address the issue of Pay Bands and to explore the inclusion of a ‘flat rate’ element in future pay submissions.



I have now advised the Company of our acceptance and asked that the increase, along with backdated monies, is paid to all members at the earliest opportunity.



For your ease of reference, the accepted offer is as follows:



An increase of 5%, plus £1000, consolidated to base pay for all employees in the collective bargaining group, if eligible for the 2023 pay award in line with the business rules
5% will be applied to the minimum and maximum of the salary band. Eligible colleagues will receive the increase consolidated to base pay capped at the pay range maximum. The business rules will apply for those promoted, such as sweep to minimum of new pay range. Where the consolidated fixed payment takes a colleagues’ salary over the band, it will be paid as a non-consolidated payment
Increases to salary bands will be capped at £99,500. Any payment above this would be paid as a non-consolidated award. Where salary bands are already above £99,500, and colleagues are within the band, the increase applied would be consolidated
Colleagues whose salary is below £35k prior to the application of the consolidated award will also receive an additional £400 consolidated payment
Colleagues whose salary is between £35k to £40k prior to the application of the consolidated award will receive an additional £200 consolidated payment
Additional Travel Benefits – a project team will be set up to review viability with the external stakeholders, associated costs and affordability. This will be discussed as part of the 2024 pay talks with the aim of introducing additional benefits by April 2025
Electrical Vehicle Salary Sacrifice (EVSSS) – a commitment to introduce by the end of 2024/25
If all TUs agree the pay deal for 2023 by 23rd February, the agreement date for eligibility will be 1st January 2024. If there is no agreement by all the TUs by this date, eligibility will be when an agreement has been made in line with existing business rules
Agreement would need to be achieved by no later than 23rd February for payment to be made either in April or May 2024
Pay awards will be effective from 1st April 2023 or 1st July 2023 depending on employees’ pay framework and the business rules


Yours sincerely



Michael Lynch

General Secretary

RATES OF PAY & CONDITIONS OF SERVICE 2023 – LONDON UNDERGROUND

www.rmt.org.uk

Quoted to comply with forum rules. No news on other Unions just yet. Very good news for all parties involved. Another victory for Britain's rail Unions.

 

[Thirteen]

I wouldn't be surprise if TSSA and Unite accept it as well, not sure on ASLEF though.

 

[Dstock7080]

ASLEF also accepts revised deal.
(waiting for official website update)

 

[SunSeeker]

ASLEF also accepts revised deal.
(waiting for official website update)

It's unfortunate those sellouts can't be forced to give their extra £1k to the RMT members that won it for them as they were so happy with the 5%.

 

[YorkRailFan]

TSSA rail union is set to ballot members working as Customer Service Managers (CSM) at London Underground in a dispute about changes to working practices.

TSSA members are extremely concerned about London Underground’s ‘Station Changes’ proposals which will dramatically reduce the number of CSM roles, changing their terms and conditions, pay and potentially work locations.

TSSA has been to ACAS to try and resolve the dispute and to seek assurances regarding the proposed changes. When the dispute was not resolved through these channels TSSA was left with no option but to ballot for industrial action.

Ballot papers will be sent to TSSA members on 22 February and must be returned by 7 March. TSSA are encouraging members to Vote Yes to "strike action" and "action short of strike action".

Commenting, TSSA General Secretary Maryam Eslamdoust said, “Our members working as Customer Service Managers at London Underground are understandably fearful that the company’s proposals will lead to a downgrading of their pay and conditions.

“We will not tolerate any worsening of our members pay, terms and conditions. We have tried to resolve this issue amicably with London Underground, but their unwillingness to give our members clear reassurances about their terms and conditions has left us with no choice but to ballot for industrial action.

“I urge our members to vote yes for both strike action and action short of strike action, in this way we can send London Underground a clear message that they cannot attack our members jobs without consequences.”

TSSA to ballot London Underground members

TSSA rail union is set to ballot members working as Customer Service Managers (CSM) at London Underground in a dispute about changes to working practices.

www.tssa.org.uk

Sounds like TSSA hasn't been offered the same deal as the RMT otherwise they wouldn't be encouraging members to vote yes.

Haven't found anything from Unite or ASLEF.

 

[Mawkie]

Sounds like TSSA hasn't been offered the same deal as the RMT otherwise they wouldn't be encouraging members to vote yes.

I think this is a separate dispute.

Haven't found anything from Unite or ASLEF.

ASLEF circular 082/2024 confirmed acceptance.

“That the report and correspondence be noted and the General Secretary be instructed to advise London Underground that that [sic] their 2023 pay offer is acceptable to ASLEF."

Not sure about Unite.

 

[Mojo]

This is a completely separate dispute, over changes to station grades. Tssa are currently carrying out a survey of members over whether to accept the pay offer, this closes on the 22nd.

 

[Thirteen]

This is a completely separate dispute, over changes to station grades. Tssa are currently carrying out a survey of members over whether to accept the pay offer, this closes on the 22nd.

I assume they can accept the offer but still be in dispute since it doesn't affect all staff.

If CSMs went on strike, can the LUL still be able to run?

 

[bluegoblin7]

I assume they can accept the offer but still be in dispute since it doesn't affect all staff.

If CSMs went on strike, can the LUL still be able to run?

Again, it is a separate dispute and unrelated to pay - it’s no different to how the RMT (for example) remains in a separate dispute with LUL over pensions.

There may be some localised impact if CSMs went on strike, but most operational duties can be (and often are) covered by CSSs doing Higher Grade Working (HGW).

Unfortunately the CSM changes are very much in motion - as usual, TSSA seem to be acting not just after the horse has bolted, but with the stable completely demolished and the horse having died of old age.

 

[Mojo]

All four unions have accepted the deal on the table and have written to LUL to confirm they are accepting the pay deal.

 

[SunSeeker]

Now all the fun and games will begin again for the 2024 claim.. just hope it doesn't take another year...

 

[43066]

Now all the fun and games will begin again for the 2024 claim.. just hope it doesn't take another year...

One year?! Try working for a TOC!

 

[YorkRailFan]

TSSA has secured a pay rise for members in London Underground following negotiations with the company.

The pay rise means that some members on the lowest salaries could see an increase of over 10%. As a member-led union, the pay offer was put to members and you voted overwhelmingly (94%) to accept.

TSSA Reps have been proved right in rejecting what was previously described by the company as a final offer. Our members remained in dispute and fought for an improved offer which we have now received.

Meanwhile, ballots were sent out yesterday to TSSA Customer Service Manager (CSM) members. Members are urged to Vote Yes to "strike action" and "action short of strike action".

All ballots are sent by post so please ensure we have your correct home address by logging into MyTSSA or emailing [email protected].

Your TSSA reps urge you to Vote Yes to "strike action" and "action short of strike action" to give us the greatest leverage with the company. The ballot closes on 7 March at 12noon.

News On The Go

Confirmation from TSSA. Shows what negotiations can do.