'pay on a train' story (FB)

[Jatos]

https://www.facebook.com/virgintrains/posts/537307636297820

I have always been an advocate of Virgin Trains, and despite the occasional delay, the service has always been brilliant. I am one of the many that is hoping you maintain the West Coast Line for many years to come. So imagine my disgust when this happens to me this morning...
My partner lives in Warrington, I live in Preston. This calls for regular "rush to the train" journeys down and then back for work the next day. Occasionally this requires me to literally run and jump on the train, money at the ready, to purchase a ticket from the train manager.

This morning however, I was absolutely appalled and disgusted at the way I was spoken to by one 'Nick Brown', supposedly the train manager, on the 11:14am from Warrington Bank Quay to Preston (Glasgow service). Picture the scenario.

I have my wallet on the table and I am buried in a news article on my phone. I had not paid much attention to 'Nick Brown' as he passed asking for "tickets from Warrington Bank Quay" but I did notice him once he passed me and caught my eye line, so I politely called him back saying "Yes please, sorry. Warrington Bank Quay to Preston please." He printed out my ticket and I drew a £20 note from my wallet. 'Nick Brown' proceeded to sigh and state he had no £10 notes, but he'd go and get me one from the catering carriage. Now, forgive me if I am being overly thoughtful here, but at this point I am thinking there is no need for him to do that, I can cope with pound coins... So I proceeded to ask "Do you have anything else?"

This was the point where 'Nick Brown' became a disgraceful example of Virgin Trains. First he says "Listen, you're the one that got on the train without a ticket" then, when I must have looked COMPLETELY and UTTERLY confused, said "Do you have a problem with that?" Now please bear in mind that I had asked if he had anything else in the way of change to save him a trip when he offered to bring me back a £10 note, so you can imagine my open mouthed disbelief at his reaction. The customers around me could no more believe his attitude than I.

It was at this moment I said "Not at all, I am trying to be polite and save you the effort." to which my response was "No, you got all arsey, so you can go to the cafe carriage and wait." Shaking my head I paid for my ticket and took it. I asked him why he was being so rude as I hadn't had time to purchase my ticket, else miss the train. He walked off procrastinating about what an "arsehole" I was. To the complete shock of all the other passengers. The young lady to my right even said "Who does he think he is speaking to?"

I collected my things and followed him to the Carriage exit. I asked if I should wait with him or go straight to the Cafe carriage. Now please forgive me if this seems a little far fetched, or even comical, but his response was "No, you can have a refund, and then I'LL be seeing YOU on the platform at Preston!" WHY ON EARTH would i want a refund, pray tell??? The gentleman who had followed me on his way to the Cafe carriage even stopped me and said "Has he just offered you out?" The man looked visibly disgusted. What was 'Nick Brown' insinuating would happen on the platform at Preston?

By now I was getting more than a little impatient with this supposed managers disgraceful attitude, so I just walked off and waited in the Cafe carriage. I asked a member of staff that will remain unidentified for his full name, collected my £10 when he arrived, and ignoring any further comments went and sat back down.

My questions to you now are as follows:

Do you not, by way of having train managers with ticket machines, allow the alighting of your trains where necessary without a ticket, or am I committing some sort of crime/social crime?

Am I to be treated like some sort of second class passenger BECAUSE I haven't had time to purchase a ticket in the run up to the train, despite having money ready to do so?

Is this the way that train managers are permitted to speak to your clients?

And finally;

Given the recent media attention surrounding Virgin Trains bid for the West Coast Mainline franchise, are Virgin Trains not in need of as much public support as possible? I myself was one of the hundreds of thousands of people to sign a petition for Virgin Trains to keep the franchise...

Now I find myself being spoken to like a grotty little anti social teenager, with no intention of paying for his ticket.

So, 'Mr Nick Brown', I hope you feel that your disgraceful attitude towards a paying customer reflects suitably upon the rest of your colleagues and the company you work for, which for the most part, performs admirably.

Personally... I think you you are a rude disgrace.

Regrettably

Harvey Hunter

What do people make of this little story?

 

[cuccir]

If true, completely unacceptable. Of course, the poster was guilty of the By-Laws and might have opened himself up to prosecution, so in many ways he was lucky. However, that doesn't excuse the guard's behaviour.

Once again, though, there's not too much to say because it's a one-sided account. It could be true. It could be fabricated.

 

[Jatos]

My rough feeling is the guard should have not acted in this manner, but I still take his side of the account with a bit of doubt - I can hardly assume he is giving the full fact. Incidently, that long reply was mine...

Certainly, even if this was accurate, then the guard is yes in the wrong but the passenger is too - he should have bought a flaming ticket! I am sure he could make found a way to buy one...

 

[Goatboy]

This is the sort of thing thats wrong with using mediusm like Facebook corporately. We have a massive rant, naming and shaming a member of staff even though it is only one persons unverified side of the story. We've got a polite reply from a rep from Virgin Trains and then a load of inane babble from random members of the public, ranging from somebody who has decided the TM shouldnt have a job based entirely on a story from a random stranger right through to somebody asking about getting a job with Virgin?

 

[Jatos]

I kind of agree, such is the evils of social networking, makes it too easy for idiots to make too bigger noise...

 

[yorkie]

Of course, the poster was guilty of the By-Laws and might have opened himself up to prosecution....

I disagree. Virgin state that they sell full fare Anytime tickets on board the train. The cause of the altercation appears to be that the passenger apparently did not notice the guard requesting tickets when he passed through the train. Quite what happened next, we may never know for certain (as we have one persons account and we do not know how reliable that account is).

If someone requires a ticket on board, it is extremely dangerous to then ignore the guard walking through the train, as such action could lead to a reasonable suspicion of attempting to avoid payment, and a possible prosecution under the Regulation of Railways Act.

It is then a known scam for such a person to attempt payment using a payment method that they know may not be acceptable. In this case I don't think a £20 note is unreasonable but clearly there was some sort of altercation when it came to paying for the ticket.

If the passenger called the ticket inspector back and requested a ticket, and the guard reacted in the way alleged, then that is unacceptable. But is this what happened? We may never know for sure!

Some of the comments seem unlikely, such as:

I got treated like a criminal when I tried to buy a ticket on the train from Carlisle,berated like a naughty child and told I wasn't allowed to buy tickets on the train,then he sold me a ticket....made me never want to go on another train

It is likely the guard explained that they cannot sell the requested ticket (eg. Off Peak) on board and only Anytime fares can be bought on board, and the guard then correctly sold an Anytime ticket. Now, I am not accusing that person of lying, as we just don't know, but I do know that some discussions of that nature take place, and some of those people do then misrepresent the encounter and report something that sounds bizarre, because it's not actually an accurate record of the conversation that took place.

 

[Jatos]

I've not come across Virgin stating this about been able to buy tickets, in which case, does change things slightly.

Hmm, I would like to have seen the incident though.

 

[yorkie]

I've not come across Virgin stating this about been able to buy tickets, in which case, does change things slightly.

Hmm, I would like to have seen the incident though.

Virgin say:

Where facilities to buy tickets before you board are available at your departure station and you choose not to, you will only be able to buy full price First and Standard tickets (First & Standard Anytime and Anytime Day) onboard. Railcard discount purchases are not available on board our trains

But if someone in that position decides to listen to music and doesn't pay attention when the guard comes round, it may look like that person doesn't want to pay. The passenger claims he called the guard back, but will that be the guard's recollection? We just don't know. But the passenger has put himself in a difficult situation by apparently initially ignoring the guard.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Seems a rather extreme reaction by the Guard if indeed it did happen the way as described. We cannot know for sure.

Had a similar problem myself (though you can always buy on our trains. No problem). Guy wants to buy a ticket for £4.70, offers £20 note. I ask if he can give me the tenner instead as I am a bit low on change (it was proudly on display in his wallet). Got my head bitten off, told to "change my attitude", and promised a complaint was on it's way. So you can't always win really. But that is the way I have always dealt with any change issues and will always continue to do so (and if it's not possible to get anything smaller then see what I can do with what I have or if they are going a few stops pop back a bit later when I hopefully have a bit more).

That's how I would have dealt with it anyway.

 

[Jatos]

I must admit I reckon this Harvey Hunter is giving a heavily tainted version of events...

 

[Harbon 1]

Seems a bit (the story) over the top to me, although I've never understood why you can't purchase tickets on a train, I don't mind having to pay an anytime fare with no discounts, seems a fair penalty for being late, and the ticket gets paid for. All I can see is that blank tickets have obviously gone up in price and the TOC's don't want to waste them :roll:

 

[yorkie]

Seems a bit (the story) over the top to me, although I've never understood why you can't purchase tickets on a train,....

This risks going off-topic, but it depends on the train!

From Kings Cross...

Grand Central / Hull Trains - Full range available on board (if barriers are in operation, simply inform them of your intentions) including Railcard discounts.
East Coast - Anytime only (but if the barriers are in operation they won't let you through), Disabled Railcard holders get the discount and the full range, First Class upgrades available.
FCC - Compulsory to buy before boarding and First Class upgrades not available on board (possible prosecution if you sit in First Class on a Standard ticket).

The discussion has been had before, but there has to be differences because of the vast nature of the UK rail network and the differences in calling patterns, staffing levels, passenger numbers, and category of service etc...

 

[transmanche]

From Kings Cross...

Of particular note is the big differences in policy applied by the two First Group TOCs...

 

[bb21]

Something is not right here. Warrington - Preston SOR is £15.50, SDR £13.50 and SDS £11.

If he paid with £20 the guard doesn't need to give £10 change in any case.

 

[Jatos]

Interesting... wonder what this guy is messing at then!

 

[Clip]

Something is not right here. Warrington - Preston SOR is £15.50, SDR £13.50 and SDS £11.

If he paid with £20 the guard doesn't need to give £10 change in any case.

Unless he had a railcard. But then again I guess he would have mentioned it when he saw the guard approaching.

Oops sorry I forgot

am buried in a news article on my phone

 

[Searle]

Unless he had a railcard. But then again I guess he would have mentioned it when he saw the guard approaching.

But railcard discounts are not available while buying on board with Virgin!

 

[tony6499]

Wonder if Nick Brown exists and if he does he may take action if what has been written is not true ?

 

[CompactDstrxion]

Guards on board should just sell the Anytime and say 'next time buy at the station and you'll get a cheaper ticket' no need to make a big deal out of it.

 

[GadgetMan]

Guards on board should just sell the Anytime and say 'next time buy at the station and you'll get a cheaper ticket' no need to make a big deal out of it.

What if the same passenger keeps ignoring the advice of buying from ticket office next time because they are too important to have to queue up and waste a few minutes of their time? The cheaper ticket argument only usually applies to Off-Peak travellers.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Virgin say:

Where facilities to buy tickets before you board are available at your departure station and you choose not to, you will only be able to buy full price First and Standard tickets (First & Standard Anytime and Anytime Day) onboard. Railcard discount purchases are not available on board our trains

It does not say tickets will be sold on board, it says that those sold on board will only be First and Standard Anytime and Anytime Day fares. There is a subtle difference.