Peak/Off-Peak times

[skyhigh]

Apologies for a slightly stupid question, but I'm having trouble working out from the Thameslink website what the first train I can use after the morning peak ends is.

The website says "Off-Peak tickets to London stations can only be used on the first trains to arrive in London after 10:00" - I'm assuming St Pancras counts as London and therefore I need to find a train that arrives after 10am?

For reference, the journey I'm making is Harpenden to St Pancras. I'm a bit confused as I'm looking at the 09:26 departure that arrives into St Pancras at 09:51, yet the website seems happy to sell me an off-peak ticket so any help would be appreciated.

 

[crehld]

Apologies for a slightly stupid question, but I'm having trouble working out from the Thameslink website what the first train I can use after the morning peak ends is.

The website says "Off-Peak tickets to London stations can only be used on the first trains to arrive in London after 10:00" - I'm assuming St Pancras counts as London and therefore I need to find a train that arrives after 10am?

For reference, the journey I'm making is Harpenden to St Pancras. I'm a bit confused as I'm looking at the 09:26 departure that arrives into St Pancras at 09:51, yet the website seems happy to sell me an off-peak ticket so any help would be appreciated.

Could you just clarify - exactly what ticket do you hold? For example, is it a HARPENDEN to LONDON TERMINALS OFF-PEAK SINGLE?

Off-peak times are determined by the ticket you hold, not the trains themselves, so we need to establish what ticket you have first.

Whatever ticket you have, if you are sold a ticket with an accompanying itinerary, then ticket is valid for that journey.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It's perfectly simple (*cough*):

• Off-Peak/Family Day Travelcard, Off-Peak Day Single/Return and First Class Off-Peak Day Return: Valid on the 0922 from Harpenden (due St Pancras 1003) and later
• Off-Peak Return: Valid on the 0942 from Harpenden (due St Pancras 1009) and later
• Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard and Super Off-Peak Day Return: Only valid at weekends and on public holidays, but by any train

This assumes you hold a ticket from Harpenden to London. For other journeys, it varies.

 

[talldave]

Apologies for a slightly stupid question, but I'm having trouble working out from the Thameslink website what the first train I can use after the morning peak ends is.

The website says "Off-Peak tickets to London stations can only be used on the first trains to arrive in London after 10:00" - I'm assuming St Pancras counts as London and therefore I need to find a train that arrives after 10am?

For reference, the journey I'm making is Harpenden to St Pancras. I'm a bit confused as I'm looking at the 09:26 departure that arrives into St Pancras at 09:51, yet the website seems happy to sell me an off-peak ticket so any help would be appreciated.

So another GTR website talking crap about off peak ticket validity - no surprises there then! Can the muppets that run the company not get simple things right??

 

[skyhigh]

Thanks for the help, the actual ticket I'm planning to use is this Off peak day travelcard at £19.60

So it would be valid on the 09:26, even though it's faster than the 09:22 and would still arrive in London before 10am?

 

[crehld]

Thanks for the help, the actual ticket I'm planning to use is this Off peak day travelcard at £19.60

So it would be valid on the 09:26, even though it's faster than the 09:22 and would still arrive in London before 10am?

Yes that's right. That ticket applies restriction code LS, which does not allow travel from Harpenden before 09:22 - the arrival time into London doesn't come into it.

 

[skyhigh]

Thanks a lot I'd say the Thameslink website is a bit confusing then, that one sentence on the morning peak doesn't quite cover it!

 

[crehld]

Thanks a lot I'd say the Thameslink website is a bit confusing then, that one sentence on the morning peak doesn't quite cover it!

Yep - such misleading statements should not be permitted. But the industry doesn't seem to have the will to deal address this.

If you're ever wondering about off-peak restrictions the definitive source is available on the national rail enquiries website. Just go to www.nationarail.co.uk/ then type in the restriction code - in your case www.nationalrail.co.uk/ls (although if you hold a travelcard the restriction code isn't usually printed on it which makes things even more unclear).

 

[gray1404]

What also does not help is when guards announce on the PA comments like "(Super) Off Peak tickets are not valid on this train." or When on a LM train "tickets marked Virgin Trains West Coast are not valid on this train." It really confused a friend I was travelling with because the route on our tickets was "VTWC and Connections" and he suddenly thought we were not allowed to make the shorter LM leg.

 

[Sprinter153]

What also does not help is when guards announce on the PA comments like "(Super) Off Peak tickets are not valid on this train." or When on a LM train "tickets marked Virgin Trains West Coast are not valid on this train." It really confused a friend I was travelling with because the route on our tickets was "VTWC and Connections" and he suddenly thought we were not allowed to make the shorter LM leg.

I think the problem these days is that the moment you charge someone an excess or replacement fare the stock response is "You can't do that. Nobody made an announcement!" - yet if we announced the full details of all the restrictions you could possibly come across ("Off Peak tickets from St Keynes Wishing Well Halt to Falls of Cruachan are only valid if the Moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars"). So people simplify. I tend to compromise with "Some Off Peak tickets aren't valid on this service, please come and find me in Coach X if you aren't sure."

To be honest, half the problem is the training. If I didn't know through general academic interest, I'd know nothing about restriction codes and have no knowledge of the Routeing Guide or the NRCOC. I spend countless hours trying to explain these things to bewildered colleagues who genuinely think Off Peak = not before 0930, Super Off Peak = not before 1030 etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In fact - here's a case in point.


"There were no announcements telling me this was the wrong route."

Yes, in the circumstances maybe a change of route X'S would be more appropriate, but still.

 

[talldave]

It's inexcusable for a TOC to provide incorrect statements on off-peak validity on websites - it's simply lazy and incompetent. They make the system so damned complicated in the first place, but can't be arsed to explain it in plain English to customers.

In the case of GTR, having tried for so many years to get them to fix the Gatwick Express website, I believe that they just don't give a toss, as I have told them many many times the simple correction they need to make.

 

[skyhigh]

As it happens, the 09:26 was changed to an all-stations train this morning and so arrived 17 minutes late and gone 10am anyway!

As an aside, the driver announced the change whilst sitting at the platform at St Albans and advised any passengers wanting a fast train to get off and wait for the next one as it'd get to St Pancras first... the only issue was he shut the doors before he finished the announcement so it was physically impossible to!