Penalty fare on East Midland train

[bb21]

As I understand it, they can remain on the train for the Anytime fare, or alight the train at the next stop and buy a new ticket from the ticket office, unless the next station is unmanned.

Fair enough if that's the rule. However was the OP informed of the option and told the difference in price he would pay otherwise?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You'd have to ask them that. The rules I have available to me are unclear if it is an option, or a requirement, to mention it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That seems rather mean minded. After all, they are buying in advance of the part of the journey covered by the extra ticket.

Well, passengers are required to purchase a valid ticket (or tickets) for their entire journey before they board a train (unless they can't). As they are already on board the train there seems no reason to allow a cheaper ticket, especially as the origin station has a manned ticket office (two infact).

 

[yorkie]

That's the only bit I'm not sure about - the off-peak single between Leicester and Sheffield is valid on any train departing Leicester after 09:00 and only costs £22.50. It would be my understanding that if you bought the onward Leicester-Sheffield ticket from the guard before the train reached Leicester you should only be charged the off-peak single rather than the anytime single, which costs £31 as you say (or indeed be allowed to split at Derby for two off-peak day singles for a saving of another few pounds). Maybe someone else can comment on this?

This seems sensible (but the railways often aren't!) however there is an argument (used by East Coast guards, but not by TPE/Northern, in my experience) that if you want the convenience of remaining on the same train then you have to pay the higher fare, and if you want the lower fare you have to get off and get back on (which, unless you are extremely lucky - depending on the timetable - will be on a later train). Guards on most TOCs will likely sell discounted tickets for onward travel on board, however you will probably find that in the case of a Penalty Fare being issued, an RPI is unlikely to do this and will charge full fare.

...I told her that because she has not got on at the start station she will be charged the full fare to GRA....

I would suggest replacing "will" with "might" or "may"

 

[barrykas]

Can't find the rules at the moment, but I remember reading that if a person is charged a PF and wants to continue beyond the next stop, they must pay the Anytime fare.

The rule stated in The Manual says "Customers have the choice of either purchasing a Single ticket for the remainder of the journey being made, or leaving the train at the next station in order to purchase another ticket", which implies that only an undiscounted Anytime Single is available on board.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[LexyBoy]

I've definitely seen it stated in print that only a full single will be sold if the passenger wishes to continue on that train. This is how it's phrased on the FGW site.

Well, passengers are required to purchase a valid ticket (or tickets) for their entire journey before they board a train (unless they can't). As they are already on board the train there seems no reason to allow a cheaper ticket, especially as the origin station has a manned ticket office (two infact).

This is a fair point, though it does seem a bit mean. I've certainly never had a problem buying discounted extension tickets on-board when boarding from a staffed station, but of course I have a ticket when boarding.

 

[barrykas]

Okay...Doing a quick roundup from TOC websites:

• c2c - The Penalty Fare only covers from the station where you got on the train to the next station at which the train stops after you have been charged a Penalty Fare. If you want to travel beyond the next station, you must also pay the relevant fare from that station to your final destination.
• NXEA - If you cannot present a valid ticket or 'Permit to Travel' when requested, you will be liable to pay a Penalty Fare of £20 or twice the appropriate full Single fare to the next station at which the train stops, whichever is the greater. You will then be required to leave the train at that stop or, if you wish to remain on the train, purchase a full Single fare ticket to your destination.
• First Capital Connect - If you do not have a valid ticket or Permit to Travel, you may have to pay a Penalty Fare of £20 or twice the full single fare to the next stop, whichever is the greater, plus the full single fare to complete your journey.
• London Midland - Unless you leave the train at the next station stop, any travel beyond that must be paid for at the standard rate with no benefit of any restrictions.
• Chiltern Railways - No mention of payment for the onward journey.
• East Midlands Trains - No mention of payment for the onward journey.
• First Great Western - No mention of payment for the onward journey.
• South West Trains - No mention of payment for the onward journey.
• Southern - If you cannot produce a valid ticket for your entire journey, or permit to travel when asked to do so you may be charged a Penalty Fare of £20 or twice the full single fare (whichever is the greater amount) to the next station at which your train stops. Also, you may be charged the full single fare to your destination station if you continue your journey on the same train.
• Southeastern - No mention of payment for the onward journey.

So general consensus is that only undiscounted Anytime (Day) Singles are available if you stay on board, and you'll need to get off the train to get a discount.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[bb21]

[*]London Midland - ... with no benefit of any restrictions.

I don't get this bit. Do they mean "of any discount".

 

[Mike395]

I don't get this bit. Do they mean "of any discount".

I would assume so, I think it's just poorly worded.

 

[RPI]

The standard PF notices at stations state the rules that it is a Pf the the next station that the train stops then the full single fare from the next stop to their destination if continuing their journey on the same train.
It has to be implemented in this way or in some cases it wouldnt be a penalty, take Truro to Padd, if you PF to the next stop (St Austell) £20 then only sell an off-peak from there (think it's around £50) then total fare is £70, which is around £30 cheaper than just selling them an SOS from Tru to Pad which is over £100!
FGW tell us not to PF for Advance tickets on wrong trains, just to charge an SOS, and it suprises me that EMT issued a PF for an Advance ticket, it is a grey(ish) area in the NRCoC along with TOC specific tickets as to be honest they are restricted by advertised restrictions!

 

[yorkie]

FGW tell us not to PF for Advance tickets on wrong trains, just to charge an SOS, and it suprises me that EMT issued a PF for an Advance ticket, it is a grey(ish) area in the NRCoC along with TOC specific tickets as to be honest they are restricted by advertised restrictions!

It surprises me too, and it may not be within the rules. Stagecoach have a reputation for not exactly 'playing fair' at times, they have a tendency to pick and choose which parts of the NRCoC they want to follow, and which to ignore (and even, in some cases, deny the existence of, such as the Routeing Guide). I have major concerns about both SWT and EMT, but I think that it is do to with the attitude that is filtered down right from the very top.

 

[RJ]

I don't get this bit. Do they mean "of any discount".

Restrictions = discounts.