Penistone Line

[BantamMenace]

Does anybody know if the line was realligned to lower the severity of some of the curves for increased speed when it was singled in the 80s or could it be redoubled without the need for reduced speeds?

Secondly, what is the patronage like on the hourly service? Will it ever become a candidate for redoubling and then possibly electrification? At present I reckon it'll be done as an infill after everything else other than the Bentham Line and the Whitby branch, so a long down the priority list.

 

[Donny Dave]

I caught the 1401 Barnsley - Huddersfield on the 30th August (part of the West Yorkshire challenge), and I wouldn't say patronage was that good. Yes there were a couple of people getting on or off the train at each stop, but there was still 30-40 people who travelled to Huddersfield on the service. However, that's just 1 train on 1 day, so nothing to build usage statements around.

As for the track formation, in my (in-expert) opinion, in places a second track could be relaid fairly easily, at other parts of the line, there is very little room to add a second line.

 

[gazthomas]

Does anybody know if the line was realligned to lower the severity of some of the curves for increased speed when it was singled in the 80s or could it be redoubled without the need for reduced speeds?

Secondly, what is the patronage like on the hourly service? Will it ever become a candidate for redoubling and then possibly electrification? At present I reckon it'll be done as an infill after everything else other than the Bentham Line and the Whitby branch, so a long down the priority list.

Having been on it on a Saturday it was very busy all the way from Huddersfield to Sheffield, with lots happening at Barnsley.

 

[Ploughman]

In places the line has been realigned for speed increases.
So the track does move across the full width of the trackbed.
I worked on some of the relays on the branch between 1990 and 2009.

In places such as at Thurstonland tunnel the new line was laid alongside the old before the ends were slewed across and reconnected then the old line was uplifted.
In this case the signal at the Huddersfield end of the tunnel was relocated to improve sighting.

 

[AndyHudds]

Passenger numbers on the line have never been higher. The weekend services are very busy, as are the mid afternoon services, the service into Huddersfield from Honley os rammed to the rafters with school kids. The line does suffer from slow line speeds and if going to Sheffield I usually go via Wakefield than have to endure the gargantuian journey time for what is, by road, a fairly short journey. The line infrastructure could do with improving but that's unlikely,lets be honest.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Unfortunately redoubling throughout is highly unlikely due to being realigned (and Berry Brow platform being built in the space of the old 'up' line), though I'd like to think there might be a case for adding an extra loop (probably at Lockwood) and allowing a half-hourly service once there's a few spare DMUs around.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Off on a slight tangent, does anyone know if any works are planned on the Penistone Line to improve linespeed? I wrote to Northern a few years back asking them if they had any plans to reinstate the Elsecar stop and they told me they couldn't put it back in till the linespeed had been increased.

 

[Welshman]

Wouldn't the present state of the viaduct over the Colne Valley at Longroyd Bridge preclude the re-introduction of double track and a more frequent service/heavier trains?

IIRC, it has a very drastic speed restriction over it.

On the whole, I think that if there is a desire to extend the MML services to Huddersfield [they did originally serve Barnsley in the peak-times], it would be better to reinstate the south-west curve at Crigglestone and go via Horbury & Mirfield.

The Penistone line seems to be so limited now in its present condition. Which is a waste, as it could have been a major artery between Bradford, Halifax, Huddersfield & Sheffield. I remember in the 1960s you could travel directly from Huddersfield to Sheffield Victoria in 50 minutes. Hey ho!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The current TSR on Longroyd Bridge Viaduct is 10mph/50mph for DMUs. Up until a few years ago locomotives were barred, but work was carried out to allow them at low speed. The fact that the speed board states 'DMU' rather than 'SP' suggest that if ever 185s were diverted over there they'd be restricted to 50 rather than 10. Not sure about the Meridians though.

Ironically IIRC just days after the work on the viaduct was carried out, the tram-train proposal was announced in a beautiful example of joined-up thinking! :roll:

I agree that Horbury Curve (at Calder Grove rather than Crigglestone!) would be ideal, but would only really be any good for a semi-fast service rather than another circuitous stopper! It would be ideal for a London service but would add to congestion East of HUD. Whilst slow, a service via Penistone would open up 'Summer Wine Country' to car-free tourists...

 

[BantamMenace]

In my non expert head there'd be a real potential for an open access service from Bradford via Huddersfield, the Penistone, Barnsley, meadowhall and Sheffield to London. Shame the Penistone makes it uncompetitive on speed. Be good to see encouragement for open access operators to invest in infrastructure somehow

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In my non expert head there'd be a real potential for an open access service from Bradford via Huddersfield, the Penistone, Barnsley, meadowhall and Sheffield to London. Shame the Penistone makes it uncompetitive on speed. Be good to see encouragement for open access operators to invest in infrastructure somehow

At risk of sounding like a broken record on here, Huddersfield must be one of the largest towns in the country without even a token service to the capital. Sure, there's a frequent service with one change but many are put off by changing. A service via Penistone would not be the quickest but it would at least be direct (the Barnsley deviation notwithstanding!). There would also be issues with platform lengths at any intermediate calls (Honley/Brockholes/Denby Dale for Holmfirth for example), as this is arguably a bigger restraint on capacity than the single line. For the local service though, P2 at HUD is the hardest to extend- which wouldn't be an issue with a London service that ran to/from beyond there. Lack of access to P8 (and intensive use of both ends of P4) might be an issue though.

Going back to platform lengths though, that doesn't seem to be an issue for GC's 180s at Brighouse, Mirfield or Pontefract - I assume they have some form of SDO? If they could be persuaded to divert some of their West Riding services that way, that might work.

That said, there's supposedly a plan for a King's Cross-Hambleton-Leeds-Huddersfield-Manchester service once the 800/801s come on stream.

 

[AndyHudds]

At risk of sounding like a broken record on here, Huddersfield must be one of the largest towns in the country without even a token service to the capital. Sure, there's a frequent service with one change but many are put off by changing. A service via Penistone would not be the quickest but it would at least be direct (the Barnsley deviation notwithstanding!). There would also be issues with platform lengths at any intermediate calls (Honley/Brockholes/Denby Dale for Holmfirth for example), as this is arguably a bigger restraint on capacity than the single line. For the local service though, P2 at HUD is the hardest to extend- which wouldn't be an issue with a London service that ran to/from beyond there. Lack of access to P8 (and intensive use of both ends of P4) might be an issue though.

Going back to platform lengths though, that doesn't seem to be an issue for GC's 180s at Brighouse, Mirfield or Pontefract - I assume they have some form of SDO? If they could be persuaded to divert some of their West Riding services that way, that might work.

That said, there's supposedly a plan for a King's Cross-Hambleton-Leeds-Huddersfield-Manchester service once the 800/801s come on stream.

Where as they aren't massive issues the back carriage doors don't open at Mirfield or Pontefract due the platforms not being long enough.

 

[Crossover]

Where as they aren't massive issues the back carriage doors don't open at Mirfield or Pontefract due the platforms not being long enough.

Mirfield p3 accommodates all passenger doors, I believe

 

[aylesbury]

There is an excellent DVD available of a journey over this line and you can see how the line has been realigned and all the stations.

Penistone is an interesting place and you can clearly see the were the line from Woodhead comes in from the right and the end in Sheffield shows the station layout clearly.

I can recommend this DVD its from 225 Studios and is not expensive.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Where as they aren't massive issues the back carriage doors don't open at Mirfield or Pontefract due the platforms not being long enough.

The sentence after the one you bolded does acknowledge that, of course!

 

[Mark62]

The journey from Sheffield to Huddersfield via Penistone is painfully slow. And made even worse as the train is usually a pacer. Lets not forget that the journey time was significantly increased when trains were diverted away from the direct route through Sheffield Victoria via Barnsley.

 

[Andyh82]

The journey from Sheffield to Huddersfield via Penistone is painfully slow. And made even worse as the train is usually a pacer. Lets not forget that the journey time was significantly increased when trains were diverted away from the direct route through Sheffield Victoria via Barnsley.

When I used the line regularly, it was also made even worse than you knew if you set off marginally late, you'd be at least 20 mins late as you'd miss your slot on the single line and would have to wait at either end for the oncoming train to clear.

Would the Penistone to Barnsley section be an easier candidate to redouble, then maybe a passing loop at Honley

 

[AndyHudds]

The journey from Sheffield to Huddersfield via Penistone is painfully slow. And made even worse as the train is usually a pacer. Lets not forget that the journey time was significantly increased when trains were diverted away from the direct route through Sheffield Victoria via Barnsley.

You're not wrong there, I always go via Wakefield just to avoid the long stop start journey. Could an alternate semi fast service be introduced calling at Honley (for Holme Valley), Penistone, Barnsley, Meadowhall and then finally Sheffield? I suppose this would take some infrastructure works to create some passing loops.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

When I used the line regularly, it was also made even worse than you knew if you set off marginally late, you'd be at least 20 mins late as you'd miss your slot on the single line and would have to wait at either end for the oncoming train to clear.

Would the Penistone to Barnsley section be an easier candidate to redouble, then maybe a passing loop at Honley

Possibly, though the Dodworth level crossing might be an issue on that stretch- I also have a feeling (might be wrong) that the bridge over the M1 is also only single track.

It is worth noting that most of the time, the loop at Penistone is not scheduled for trains to cross, and is usually only used if the northbound service is significantly delayed, with a handful of exceptions. A loop somewhere between Stocksmoor and Huddersfield will be needed if the frequency is to be improved, perhaps a dynamic loop running from just after Berry Brow, over Lockwood viaduct and through the station and ending just before the viaduct at Longroyd Bridge?

Won't improve journey times but I don't think there's any way of doing that without spending silly money to reopen via Oxspring and somehow construct a curve allowing trains to access Sheffield Midland. Improving HUD-SHF times needs the Horbury curve, I'm afraid...

 

[Ploughman]

M1 bridge is single line.
had to do a survey over it a few years back.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

M1 bridge is single line.
had to do a survey over it a few years back.

Thought so, thanks for the info.

With one or two extra (bi-directional) loops, a semi-fast service could perhaps be pathed around the existing hourly service. Which calls to make would be tricky though. I agree with the suggestions made above, but a call at either Shepley or Denby Dale would be useful too, as both serve a reasonably populous and affluent hinterland.

The main problem other than a lack of loops though is platform capacity at Huddersfield. Only 2 and 4 are signalled for both arrivals and departures to/from Lockwood, with 1 allowing departures only. As a result some work would be needed there which would not be cheap. The only opportunity for solving the issue is likely to be the resignalling that will come with TP North electrification, but I'm not sure what is currently being planned for that other than the possibility of a new platform on the North side of the station, which would be unlikely to help the Penistone line much on its own.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Personally I can't see any realistic demand for a faster service on the Penistone Line, nor any justification for significant doubling of track. Just accept it for what it is, a commuter service at each end and a leisure service at weekends with a lovely scenic bit between Silkstone and Honley. It's no more suitable for a fast service than the Whitby branch!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Personally I can't see any realistic demand for a faster service on the Penistone Line, nor any justification for significant doubling of track. Just accept it for what it is, a commuter service at each end and a leisure service at weekends with a lovely scenic bit between Silkstone and Honley. It's no more suitable for a fast service than the Whitby branch!

I take your point, but respectfully disagree... The line has been treated as a rural backwater for decades, but there is a lot of untapped demand both for short trips at either end and for a decent semi-fast service with a reasonable journey time between Huddersfield and Meadowhall and Sheffield. Problem is, making it possible would be expensive whichever route (Penistone or a relaid Horbury curve) was chosen.

 

[Bantamzen]

In my non expert head there'd be a real potential for an open access service from Bradford via Huddersfield, the Penistone, Barnsley, meadowhall and Sheffield to London. Shame the Penistone makes it uncompetitive on speed. Be good to see encouragement for open access operators to invest in infrastructure somehow

Funnily enough I've often wondered if a Bradford - Huddersfield - Sheffield service might be viable, particually if you cut down the dwell time at Halifax, dropped Deighton as a stop & run semi-fast from Huddersfield onwards. I still remember the X33 Bradford - Dewsbury - Wakefield - Barnsley - Sheffield bus service (I used it a lot), and it was a great shame when it was dropped. So maybe there would be at least a limited market for a similar rail service?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Funnily enough I've often wondered if a Bradford - Huddersfield - Sheffield service might be viable, particually if you cut down the dwell time at Halifax, dropped Deighton as a stop & run semi-fast from Huddersfield onwards. I still remember the X33 Bradford - Dewsbury - Wakefield - Barnsley - Sheffield bus service (I used it a lot), and it was a great shame when it was dropped. So maybe there would be at least a limited market for a similar rail service?

At risk of topic drift, the dwell at Halifax on the Bradford to Huddersfield service is AFAIK set to be cut down a fair bit once Low Moor opens, with possibly a further cut if/when Elland ever gets a station. That service is currently planned to be the only one to call at Low Moor, and of course it already runs through Deighton without calling. Bradford to Sheffield is possibly a journey that deserves a direct service, though without improvements to the infrastructure both at and south of Huddersfield, the Penistone line is probably not the ideal route for it. Such a service might strengthen the case for Horbury curve though...

 

[21C101]

Is there any prospect of the Kirklees light railway extending along half a mile of the singled track to provide an interchange at Shepley or a main line platform at Shelley?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there any prospect of the Kirklees light railway extending along half a mile of the singled track to provide an interchange at Shepley or a main line platform at Shelley?

I don't think there's any plans for that, though it would be nice. There's a few issues though. A mainline platform at Shelley is a non-starter, as there's no local population that isn't already served by Shepley, which is probably too close to justify an extra stop regardless of the problems caused by slowing a service which has already been condemned on this thread as being too slow. The line is also double at that point, which more than doubles the cost of any station (2 platforms, footbridge etc.).

Extending the KLR would be easier on the face of it, but even then I'm not sure there's any room alongside the double track, and shortening the loop wouldn't be a great idea!