Penistone Line

[colpepper]

For anyone who doesn't know it this is a much used line that was under threat for many years, running from Huddersfield to Sheffield. However the journey takes a remarkable 1 hr 17 minutes to link two large employment centres in close proximity. There are no direct trains.

For intermediate villages it's a fine service but only the desperate use it daily end to end. As it's mostly single track the problem must be getting stuck behind a stopper although there is a loop. What chance of twin tracking again and making it a real north-south connection?

 

[142094]

Would have thought making it two track again would be unlikely, especially with some of the platforms disused and needing a lot of money to bring back into use.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Since the introduction of the semi-fast Leeds to Sheffield (via Barnsley) I find it much preferable to leave the Penistone Line to the natives and go Hudds>Kirkgate>Sheff.

 

[Welshman]

Yet the Penistone line used to be double-tracked throughout, with a regular service from Bradford Exchange either via Liversedge or Halifax, through Huddersfield, to Penistone, connecting with a DC electric off the Woodhead route, which whizzed you down to Sheffield Victoria in 15 minutes!
There were even through trains Bradford-Huddersfield-Sheffield [famously the "South Yorkshireman" from Bradford to London Marylebone], and the Summer-Saturday Bradford-Pooles.
So 50 years ago, a Huddersfield-Sheffield journey now taking 1 hour 17 minutes was possible in 50 minutes! And the coaching stock was decidedly more comfortable too!
Ahhh..... Nurse - the screens!

 

[colpepper]

It's certainly a round the houses ramble. In the days I had to be in London more often than now, in a fever of localism I used to take the train from Hudds, or more often Brockholes, to link with the MML at Sheffield. Absolutely exhausting.

The Holme Valley has a regular exodus to London all of whom drive to Wakefield Westgate for the ECML. The morning and evening run is a veritable convoy but certainly the quickest way from the hills to the smoke. Removing the Stocksbridge connection was a classic bit of short-termism.

 

[ess]

beautiful line. always a shame that the west yorkshire day rover didn't go past denby dale for the viaduct

 

[VideozVideoz]

It's certainly a round the houses ramble. In the days I had to be in London more often than now, in a fever of localism I used to take the train from Hudds, or more often Brockholes, to link with the MML at Sheffield. Absolutely exhausting.

The Holme Valley has a regular exodus to London all of whom drive to Wakefield Westgate for the ECML. The morning and evening run is a veritable convoy but certainly the quickest way from the hills to the smoke. Removing the Stocksbridge connection was a classic bit of short-termism.

A regular exodus to London? Why would so many people from this area be especially wanting to commute to London as opposed to any other area? Are you aware of daily commuters too??

 

[colpepper]

A regular exodus to London? Why would so many people from this area be especially wanting to commute to London as opposed to any other area? Are you aware of daily commuters too??

I doubt many, if any, commute daily. However the valley is residence to a large number who work in Manchester, Leeds, Huddersfield, Bradford, Sheffield and whose jobs take them to London on a regular basis, sometimes a day or two a week. I know a number of such folk and also recognise the same faces who do likewise.

It would be interesting to see the figures for long distance travel from Wakefield to London. My perception is it's growing as a northern business rail hub from the number of up market cars parked in the same spots.

 

[sonic2009]

I doubt many, if any, commute daily. However the valley is residence to a large number who work in Manchester, Leeds, Huddersfield, Bradford, Sheffield and whose jobs take them to London on a regular basis, sometimes a day or two a week. I know a number of such folk and also recognise the same faces who do likewise.

It would be interesting to see the figures for long distance travel from Wakefield to London. My perception is it's growing as a northern business rail hub from the number of up market cars parked in the same spots.

Can't a HST go up the penistone line? Or a 222? Could start an early sheffield back from huddersfield? Emt should look into this! That's my view anyway

 

[YorkshireBear]

Can't a HST go up the penistone line? Or a 222? Could start an early sheffield back from huddersfield? Emt should look into this! That's my view anyway

When they took over franchise they were told to remove the barnsley london daily service so i doubt they would be allowed to do one to huddersfield

Alliance rail plan to run a 4 times daily service along line to london kings ross via worksop

 

[colpepper]

Grand Central had plans for a direct Hudds-London link for the first time in years but they seem to be on the back burner and neither were to use the Penistone line. One was via the ECML and the other west.
It's extraordinary there's no rush hour straight through service from Sheffield-Hudds and vice versa given the number who use it.

 

[Ploughman]

Double tracking probably not an option now.
A number of the curves along the route have been eased by realigning to make best use of full formation width.
Also when Thurstonland tunnel was relaid a few years back the new track was laid on the redundant formation within the tunnel and the old track then removed.
This also eased the curves at either end of the tunnel.

 

[Welshman]

When they took over franchise they were told to remove the barnsley london daily service so i doubt they would be allowed to do one to huddersfield

Was this DafT's instruction?

Currently, the 0627 Sheffield-St Pancras and the 1815 return originate/extend at/to Leeds [for access to Neville Hill depot]. I wouldn't have thought they'd be that many passengers at the ends of the day from Wakefield/Doncaster to the East Midlands?

Were they to travel to and from Leeds via Huddersfield, Penistone and Barnsley, they would give a valuable through London service to Huddersfield and the Penistone line in what was originally marginal time.

It does seem odd that a town the size of Huddersfield currently has no through London service. I know potential passengers could drive to Brighouse for a connecting GC service, but that's not the same as a through train.

 

[colpepper]

I know potential passengers could drive to Brighouse for a connecting GC service, but that's not the same as a through train.

Particularly when Brighouse station consists of some steps down from a road bridge and has a direct London link, whereas Huddersfield, the best station in England according to Betjeman, doesn't.

 

[Skarpur]

The 1815 from St Pancras already goes via Barnsley, it just doesn't appear to stop there. Took me rather by surprise when waiting at Meadowhall for my train home when a HST went through, Im assuming its a not so late night alternative to ensure route coverage for drivers.

 

[brompton rail]

When they took over franchise they were told to remove the barnsley london daily service so i doubt they would be allowed to do one to huddersfield

Was this DafT's instruction?


It does seem odd that a town the size of Huddersfield currently has no through London service. I know potential passengers could drive to Brighouse for a connecting GC service, but that's not the same as a through train.

Currently, the 0627 Sheffield-St Pancras and the 1815 return originate/extend at/to Leeds [for access to Neville Hill depot]. I wouldn't have thought they'd be that many passengers at the ends of the day from Wakefield/Doncaster to the East Midlands?


Given that the 05:27 Leeds to St P does pick up maybe unto a couple of dozen people at Doncaster, and probably the same at Wakefield, I doubt that starting it from Leeds at around 04:30 and running via Huddersfield, Penistone and Barnsley to arrive in Sheffield for about 06:20 is going to attract many passengers. The crew would need to leave Sheffield before 03:00 to get to Neville Hill / Leeds by taxi and would have done half their shift before getting back to Sheffield!

 

[Welshman]

Hmmm.....
There are alternative services in West & South Yorkshire [eg an EC from Leeds 5 minutes behind at 0530 for Wakefield and Doncaster; a 0600XC from Leeds and Wakefield for Sheffield and services from Doncaster to Sheffield at 0540 & 0600]. Now passengers from Wakfield and Doncaster for London will presumably use the faster EC trains, so are you saying the 50 or so boarding at Wakefield & Doncaster are for Derby, Loughborough, Leicester or Wellingborough?
Regarding timings - I think you are a bit generous. It should be possible to leave Leeds about 0500, Huddersfield 0520, travel non-stop to Barnsley about 0600, and arrive in Sheffield about 0622 to depart as booked at 0627. [or even include a pick-up only at Brockholes, say, to accommodate the Holme Valley traffic colpepper and VideozVideoz envisage!].
If the 50 or so on the train from Wakefield and Doncaster are actually going south of Sheffield, [but not to London], then I'm sorry, they will be inconvenienced. But I still can't help feeling that a through service from Huddersfield, England's 10th largest town and with a population of 146,000 [ source Wikipedia; and just bigger than Wakefield & Doncaster put together] -would be worth a go, even if it does mean earlier than ideal departures from Huddersfield and Barnsley. And a through service back at 1815 off St Pancras is surely worth a try, too.
It would mean EM crews learning Leeds-Barnsley via Huddersfield, but presumably they already learn other routes off the core services [eg. Doncaster-York and Scarborough] for a once-a-week operation, so would this add too much to their workload?
Finally, yes - it would mean them going earlier in the morning from Sheffield to Neville Hill, but then I always assumed trains were run for the convenenience of passengers, not crew!

 

[colpepper]

Well argued Welshman! Since the Penistone line was singled Huddersfield became an exclusively cross-Pennine route, apart from the village stopper we've discussed. As well as the traffic generated by a large town - the university is the largest employer with a constant flow of students, academics, visiting lecturers - south of Huddersfield is a broad upland area with considerable populations in the valleys connected well north-south to Hudds but poor to non-existent east-west, where the main rail routes are.

The service on the Huddersfield-Manchester line appears to be another local stopper if used south of Huddersfield (Slaithwaite, Marsden, etc) and inconvenient as start-end point for long distance travel. A direct London link would not only pick up the town's traffic but the area to the south making the case even more compelling. I doubt any operator running it on an experimental basis would have cause to drop the idea, the numbers are certainly there.