People hit by trains

[Mojo]

Two stories from BBC News about problems this morning.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7348241.stm

Trains running from Bristol to London are suffering major disruptions after a train hit someone on the track.

Buses will replace many First Great Western trains after the collision between Bathampton and Box involving the 0900 BST service from London.

A train service from Bristol Parkway to London is still running, as is a half hour service from Bristol Temple Meads.

Services after Bath will be diverted via Westbury up to London Paddington, adding 45 minutes to journey times.

'Major disruption'

Buses from Chippenham to Swindon have been put in place.

Local services between Cardiff, Bristol, Bath, west Wiltshire and east Somerset are unaffected, although there may be some minor delays.

"This is causing major disruption. It is impossible to give a timescale and we are in the hands of the British Transport Police (BTP)," said a First spokesman.

A BTP spokeswoman said the incident was not being treated as suspicious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7347975.stm

A man and a woman died when they were struck by an 80mph train on a railway line in west Essex.

The incident happened in the early hours at Harlow Mill on the Cambridge to London Liverpool Street line.

The driver of the 0618 BST train from Cambridge told police he sounded his horn and applied the emergency brakes but was unable to avoid striking them.

Train operator National Express East Anglia said some services were cancelled and others would be delayed.

Bus replacements are ferrying passengers between Broxbourne and Bishop's Stortford or Stansted.

A British Transport Police spokeswoman said: "A train driver reported striking at least one person on the line at Harlow Mill station.

"The train was approaching the station, where it was not due to stop, at 80mph.

"The driver saw a man and woman on the track, blew his horn and applied the emergency brake, but was unable to avoid striking them.

"Police can confirm that both people died at the scene."

 

[O L Leigh]

Harlow Mill again...?

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

First was a suspected suicide, second lot were a pair arguing on the platform and ended up on the track.

I really do wonder about the sense of laying on buses and the economic disruption it causes. Surely there is a better way of dealing with these things?

A 'good Samaritan' could have been trying to stop a woman commit suicide moments before they were both killed on railway tracks by an 80mph express train, it has emerged.

The couple appeared to be having a blazing row before they were struck by the train near to Harlow Mill station in Essex in front of horrified commuters at around 8am this morning.

Police are treating the incident as "unexplained" but witnesses have told of an argument and suggesting the man might have been trying to stop the woman killing herself.

Detective Chief Inspector David Shipperlee, of the British Transport Police, said: "There's a suggestion from a witness that there may have been some raised voices.

"It's also been suggested that the male was trying to pull the female from the tracks."

According to witnesses the woman got down on to the track and the man followed her, apparently unaware that the train was approaching.

One reportedly told police the man was pleading with the woman to get back onto the platform.

Horrified commuters watched helplessly as the train driver slammed on the brakes but could not stop in time.

The couple were pronounced dead at the scene following the collision at 8am, the height of the rush hour.

Police said the identity of the victims was unknown, although the dead man was thought to have been in his mid 30s.

"The train was travelling at approximately 80mph and sadly hit two people who were standing in the centre of the south-bound tracks," said Mr Shipperlee.

"Sadly the two people died at the scene and currently we are trying to identify who they are."

Police covered an area of the railway tracks about 300 yards apart as scene of crime officers combed the area.

A blue tarpualin covered the point where the pair were hit and one of the bodies lay. Another, further down the track, covered the second body.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23478559-details/article.do?ito=newsnow&

 

[P156KWJ]

hock: ironic how being good gets you killed. Even if they are going to commit suicide, never get on the line.

 

[delt1c]

Have a thought for the friends and family of the deceased,the driver of the train and any witnessess to the fatality, they could be reading items like this and dont want to be continualy reminded.

Until you have been personally involved in a fatality you can imagine the effect, back in 1978 I was working a No9 bus in piccadilly and involved in a fatality, takes along time to get over it. So if anyone thinks its just an incident its not. Imagine the effect on the train driver at Harlow seeing what was about to happen but being powerless to do anything.

I have afriend who is a driver at Chingford and it is every drivers nightmare.

 

[Mojo]

I've had to delete a small number of posts in this thread because of a complaint from another user.

 

[Daniel]

Was down at Tottenham this afternoon. Track was handed over around 1600.

The staff / cabin crew didn't know who the driver was, but all thoughts with him atm, poor bloke.

It really is quite confusing. First reports were of a domestic type incident, but apparently a witness had mentioned a third person, which is why the service took so long to recover, as everyone had to be interviewed by the BTP. I don't think it's been confirmed if one was committing suicide and another was trying to stop them, but it's what it looks like I suppose.

Again, condolences to friends, family, bystanders, those cleaning up the mess, and, of course, the driver.

 

[Chris.waring]

Have a thought for the friends and family of the deceased,the driver of the train and any witnessess to the fatality,

Did the woman have a thought for her friends and family,the driver of the train and any witnessess to the fatality".

I think not.

 

[yorkie]

I don't think anyone really understand how bad it must be for a driver in this situation, unless it's happened to you. I don't know how I'd react if it was me.

Yes, drivers are trained to cope with such eventualities, but humans are not robots and people will react differently, some may be able to blank it out of their minds, but some can't.

The driver actually is very traumatised, he's very shocked. He's not working as a result, he's not well enough either for us to take a detailed statement from him at the moment

I have every sympathy for him and hope that he is able to get back to driving again. As I've said in previous topics, I totally support the drivers in these cases and they have the right to not have to live in constant fear of running someone over.

As for the debate about whether such topics should be discussed... a few years ago I don't think suicides were mentioned as much on the news, but now it seems they are. If people wish to complain, doing so here is not going to achieve anything, they could write to the BBC or any other news organisations that are reporting them.

 

[me123]

a few years ago I don't think suicides were mentioned as much on the news, but now it seems they are. If people wish to complain, doing so here is not going to achieve anything, they could write to the BBC or any other news organisations that are reporting them.

Is it maybe, though, that there are more suicides to report that's the issue? You hear that numbers of people with mental health issues are constantly rising and that not everyone seeks treatment due to the stigma, or perhaps they don't consider themselves to need help.

If I'm being honest, only in the past few months have I really seen such large numbers of "suicide-by-train" deaths posted on this and other sites, and in the news as well. It may just be that they're beginning to come to my attention, but I have a feeling that number of suicides on the whole has risen, and I think the issue here might be the need for better mental health services.

Regarding the deletion, I was actually under he impression that it was due to the mention of a certain film, Yorkie, as all posts relating to it have been removed. You probably know more than I do, of course .

Edit: Having seen the new thread, please ignore the biit I've scored out

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To give you an idea of how a driver feels, here is an example I heard a few years back.

A train hit a teenager near Penge, the driver was replaced as soon as possible and was conselled for 6 months whilst off work, but did return. The family were also very upset and asked BR if they could set a memorial for the kid to commemorate the first anniversary, which they did. The driver, now back on duty, saw the memorial as he passed it and was replaced at the next stop, as he felt he was unable to continue.

 

[nath9425]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7349772.stm

So they were on the track...think of the driver having to feel the 'Vibrations' first before anyone else and actually seeing them go under!

The brakes stopped it in seconds? Must of been a good reaction by the driver.

 

[O L Leigh]

The brakes stopped it in seconds? Must of been a good reaction by the driver.

Always.

Just a shame that the media don't understand that the punters haven't got much of a clue what they're talking about.

O L Leigh

 

[Turbostar]

Been reports on BBC News 24 of yet another person being knocked by a train, this time this morning at Staines, Surrey. Same type as the one in Essex, person crossing track, got foot stuck in slats next to crossing, friend accompanying this person tried to help, got out of way before train hit. Can't find anything on BBC News website at mo.

 

[Z12XE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/surrey/7350833.stm

Very little info though.

No doubt many millions will now be spent changing these slats for the cones as a knee jerk reaction

 

[Mojo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/surrey/7350833.stm

Very little info though.

No doubt many millions will now be spent changing these slats for the cones as a knee jerk reaction

There is now a pic on the BBC News article

Which now seems to suggest that she was not caught in the anti-trespass grid, but in the wooden blocks which make up the crossing itself, which would make her actions totally legitimate.

 

[Andrew Tiffin]

You don't see that often.

 

[support-uk-rail]

This world is getting worse and worse...

Through rail, through everything...

Endless suicides and countless deaths,
War, famine.. with a fast rising population with fast rising food prices,
Running out of oil,
High water levels...


Just what are we heading into?

I can't even begin to imagine the distress of that woman.

 

[Tom B]

^ Either that, or the media are hyping it up more.

 

[ungreat]

Yes, drivers are trained to cope with such eventualities

Much as I appreciate your sentiments in the rest of this post(not very often us drivers get sympathy!) I can say that we are NOT trained to cope with these happenings.As you said,humans react differently to these events..all we are trained to do is stop and call the signalman.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

^ Either that, or the media are hyping it up more.

Exactly....Consider this..when you read in a paper a story about something you know well,you can usually pick many holes in it.However,when you don't know much about a particular subject most people will be inclined to believe what the press says,even if it is utter tosh.

 

[me123]

I can't even begin to imagine the distress of that woman.

A long time ago, I saw a children's programme where a woman nipped thtough the red lights at a Level Crossing; her daughter refusing to do so. The barriers had only just lowered. She got her foot caught in the rail and what I think was a FGW HST hit her. The main issue was that it traumatised her daughter of course.

It portrayed her emotions quite well I think; the terror was so intense that it was shocking to watch (I'm surprised it was children's TV). I'm not going to pretend that that watching it could be anywhere near the distress of someone caught in that position, but it showed me what it must be like.

If it was anything like what I saw, all I can say is that it one of the worst possible ways to die.

 

[O L Leigh]

Much as I appreciate your sentiments in the rest of this post(not very often us drivers get sympathy!) I can say that we are NOT trained to cope with these happenings.As you said,humans react differently to these events..all we are trained to do is stop and call the signalman.

Agreed.

Generally we're fortunate to have the opportunity to talk about such matters, but we receive no specific training for fatalities other than dealing with them as an out-of-course incident as required by the Rules. What happens after that and how we deal with such matters personally is something that is left to us to work out, with the help of our colleagues, managers and counsellors (if deemed necessary) under the "chain of care" procedures.

O L Leigh

 

[support-uk-rail]

I think we need to look at Japan.

Their rail systems are in some places equally as effecient and modern as ours, in other places, much more advanced, but either way, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, yet one of the lowest suicide-on-the-line rates.

Some of their stations have barriers on, but I think we need to check out what measures the Japs are going to to stabilise a low number of "jumpers".

BTW, I'd like to find out about that programme...

 

[O L Leigh]

The reason is to do with the cultural differences between the UK and Japan. There is a long tradition of suicide in Japanese culture, but it is essentially a private act.

O L Leigh

 

[Nym]

Where as pepole comiting suicide over here want to do it in a hail of glory and matorism, they can't just go home and die quietly, mostly because they seek attention out of their life, where as the japanise reasons for suicide are fundimentaly diferent, that being of honor (or lack thereof) or shame in relation to an event, going back to the days of the samurai.

(Agreeing and elaborating on what OL Leigh said)

And if we had a better planned system and more in house engineering or out of box solution use, we could have barriers up at major mainline stations, similar to that on the new jubilee line stations on the london undergound, this wouldn't stop pepole killing themselves on the rails, but it would remove the glory of doing it infront of everyone in the station and reduce the availabilty of places to do so, granted it will still happen on LCs and normal lineside areas, but with the british attitude of requiring attention when comiting suicide, then it would be likly to be moved elsewhere.

The basic upshot of this post takes into account the main views of self harmers and whiney teenagers that just want attention, whom account for the majority of suicide attempts. It however does not account for the mentaly ill or clinicaly depressed. However, persons in these groups will have a reduced phycie and thereforw would not want to stray onto trackside or LC areas and would be likly to use opertunist opertinities to kill themselves by jumping trackside on stations.

This is not intended to be a slur upon any of these groups, simply a group and manner of observations...

 

[O L Leigh]

Where as pepole comiting suicide over here want to do it in a hail of glory and matorism, they can't just go home and die quietly, mostly because they seek attention out of their life, where as the japanise reasons for suicide are fundimentaly diferent, that being of honor (or lack thereof) or shame in relation to an event, going back to the days of the samurai.

(Agreeing and elaborating on what OL Leigh said)

I wasn't actually drawing that parallel, but simply offering an explanation for why the rate of "one-unders" in Japan is so low as a proportion of the total suicide rate.

But as you've raised the issue, I would have to disagree. Most fatals tend to happen outside the peak, which suggests that they don't particularly want a large audience. Their most pressing concern is that they are successful and that they die quickly and as painlessly as possible. For better or worse, leaping under a train is probably one of the most effective ways of achieving these aims.

O L Leigh

 

[Nym]

Ahhh, right, as I wasn't aware of this I may have drawn a diferent conclusion, my point still stands over an audience though, perhaps a very large audience of peak hours reduces their self confidence, to being able to comit suicide...?

 

[Muttley]

I think we need to look at Japan.

Their rail systems are in some places equally as effecient and modern as ours,

Don`t ever take a trip oop north, your illusions will be sadly shattered. Those 142s we sent down your way recently, they`re the standard up here.


As to the deaths, there does seem to be a spate of them recently, and in similar circumstances. Anyone else feel a govt/NR knee jerk coming ?

 

[support-uk-rail]

Yeah..........

 

[me123]

Don`t ever take a trip oop north, your illusions will be sadly shattered. Those 142s we sent down your way recently, they`re the standard up here.

Pass further North, and you enter Scotland, home of new trains, new routes, and the largest commuter network outside London (that is, Glasgow).