PERTIS (Permit to Travel) machines and how they were used

[Bletchleyite]

When I first started travelling on the train (from Lichfield Trent Valley) there was a Pertis machine on the Birmingham-bound platform, and I would always put in the full fare to Birmingham when I had to use it. I think maybe there was a poster saying you should put in as close to the fare as you could manage?

There was, yes, but I very much doubt many people did.

(from my other post to clarify thread

The main reason for these was to prove where you came from, and the main reason for the charge was so the local chavs didn't hold the button down and dump the whole roll of tickets on the floor. Northern have achieved the latter with their analogous Promise to Pay tickets by making the process of obtaining them too involved for someone to do loads at once.

 

[Red Rover]

5p and then wait in my experience.

 

[DeeGee]

When I used to use them on the Medway Valley Line, or the Maidstone East Line late on a Sunday, I'd put in 5 or 10p.

What used to happen, then, is if a guard came down, they'd give me back the coin, and sell me a ticket for the full price which I'd usually pay by card.

Of course, if a guard didn't come down, I'd queue up at the ticket office my interchange or arrival station and exchange my PERTIS ticket as credit for the appropriate correct ticket, as I'd imagine everyone else did?

There was a similar machine at Chantilly when I lived in France, but that has a poster next to it with the correct fares for various popular destinations and you were expected to put in full fare. I don't know what would have happened if you wanted to travel further afield, but I presume that as most non-local stuff from Chantilly-Gouvieux generally required a cross-Paris transfer that you'd get a single to the first stop and then rebook from there?

 

[uvarvu]

I used to dump all my compatible change in the one at London Road Brighton and then exchange for a ticket upon arrival at Brighton. This was back in the early 2000s.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are these PERTIS things still in use? Can't say I've seen one up North anytime recently.

 

[Mcv378]

Are these PERTIS things still in use? Can't say I've seen one up North anytime recently.

I believe Northern have replaced all of them with a "Promise to Pay" ticket from the ticket machine.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are these PERTIS things still in use? Can't say I've seen one up North anytime recently.

A thread you might have missed was still running late last year - it tried to pin down remaining machines:

Locations of Permit To Travel Machines?

This is a list of the start dates for all the areas that used PERTIS. The furthest north they went were in the West Yorkshire area although they were all removed after 3 years. 16-Nov-88 London/Tilbury/Southend 20-Jan-92 South London 16-Mar-92 Kent Coast 19-Oct-92 Great Eastern 19-Oct-92 West...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Jimini]

I'll be totally honest here -- back in the '90s I and a few others who used to do occasional journeys from Epsom via. Kensington Olympia and up to the midlands on Connex services used to get a 5p permit to travel ticket, and then only carry a £50 note (for which the guard generally didn't have enough change for to charge the actual fare if they did indeed wander through the train to collect fares).

Not something I'm proud of, of course (far from it), but we live and learn eh. Here endeth Jim's confessions of a spotty teenager!

 

[telstarbox]

Connex used to have a poster of common fares by the Pertis at stations on the now Southeastern network.

 

[Wolvercoter]

For info, both Lapworth and Hatton Permit to Travel machines are working today.

 

[WesternLancer]

I recall one of these being installed at my local station in Sussex in Network South East days - so I am thinking probably c1987. It either got installed for when the ticket office was closed or got installed at the same time as the 1st generation of Ticket Vending Machine (but could have been before the TVM appeared). I think it did ask you to put in close to the correct fare but not sure how you would have known what that fare was.

I assume if the TVM was also there from the same time it would have been for when you had the wrong cash to put in the TVM or the TVM could not give change (no ability to use a card in the TVM in those days AFAIK, tho I would not have had a card anyway - my bank card in those days was just a cashpoint card.

I would only tend to put in the smallest coinage I had spare eg 5p, 10p or 20p - but the guard would usually keep an eye out for passengers joining (rural station with modest footfall much of the time) and it was straightforward to then pay what was owed for the fare on the train.

I do recall once embarking on a long distance journey with one, and the guard asked me to make the payment at the ticket office where I interchanged as he did not want to issue the saver return I was asking for.

On one occasion the Permit to Travel machine issued the permit with nothing printed on it so was undated / untimed (I guess the ink had run out or some such) - I thought this would be very handy to have in the event of future travel when I had for some reason been unable to get a ticket or permit that I made a point of keeping this carefully in my wallet if ever needed in future. I certainly kept it carefully for a few years . I never had cause to use it however.

 

[ricohallo]

For info, both Lapworth and Hatton Permit to Travel machines are working today.

The one at Little Kimble was unfortunately out of use today with a Permit to Travel ticket stuck in the ticket slot.

 

[philthetube]

After one swallowed a pound from me at Stoke Newington and I was not believed by the railway I made a point of always having a 5p coin with me.

 

[ricohallo]

Can confirm the one in Lapworth is currently working. The time is running a few minutes behind.

 

[Tetchytyke]

After one swallowed a pound from me at Stoke Newington and I was not believed by the railway I made a point of always having a 5p coin with me.

Same here. I had one swallow a quid at Frizinghall with the same results and so I always also put the smallest coin I had on me into the machine.

 

[CreeperLoop]

Just wondering if Chiltern still collect the coins and fill new tickets for the PERTIS at Lapworth/Hatton?
Would like to get multiple Permit tickets printed there, as there's almost no working ALMEX machines in NSE region where I live (not sure the Denham Golf Club one is still in its place).

The 2 Metric PERTIS (Millbrook, Redbridge) around Southampton are running well now, as SWR orders new parts for them and cleans the coin inside regularly (they even remembered to turn it off at the strike days!). However the Millbrook one have some issue with its ticket printer since early January and may not dispense Permits in a correct order.

I've travelled once in 2023 using Permit to Travel and exchanged it to a ticket at Southampton Central. Surprised to see some ticket officers and train guards still remember what these tickets are!

 

[ricohallo]

I went to those at Millbrook and Redbridge too just a few days ago. They were both working, but text was still printed at a 90 degree angle.

 

[CreeperLoop]

I went to those at Millbrook and Redbridge too just a few days ago. They were both working, but text was still printed at a 90 degree angle.

Very happy to see the Millbrook one has been fixed! I have no clue why they still put these tickets with wrong orientations -- but it's not a big issue though

 

[GarethW]

The one at Beaulieu Road was working about half the times I passed it last summer.

Which was a major improvement over the past few years.

 

[MikeWM]

Not really 'news' given the other recent reports, but I can confirm Redbridge and Millbrook were both working this evening, albeit still with the 90 degree rotation mentioned above.

Redbridge is about 1 minute slow, whereas Millbrook is about 2 minutes fast, but otherwise date and time correct.

Anyone know what the orange button is for on the Millbrook machine, located between the red and green buttons? Redbridge only had the red and green buttons. (Can't post a photo at the moment, sorry).

 

[stadler]

Not really 'news' given the other recent reports, but I can confirm Redbridge and Millbrook were both working this evening, albeit still with the 90 degree rotation mentioned above.

Redbridge is about 1 minute slow, whereas Millbrook is about 2 minutes fast, but otherwise date and time correct.

Anyone know what the orange button is for on the Millbrook machine, located between the red and green buttons? Redbridge only had the red and green buttons. (Can't post a photo at the moment, sorry).

That is very odd. They must have replaced the machine at Millbrook quite recently if it has an orange button in the middle. I have photos of, Beaulieu Road, Holton Heath, Longcross, Millbrook, Redbridge, and all five machines are the same with just a green button and red button. Other photos online of Millbrook also show this. It is only the newer versions of Metric Aura machines that have an orange button in the middle. So that suggests to me that the machine at Millbrook has been replaced recently.

 

[AdamWW]

I went to those at Millbrook and Redbridge too just a few days ago. They were both working, but text was still printed at a 90 degree angle.

I can see the logic for a 2 hour limit on validity, but can also imagine circumstances in which one might reasonably fail to acquire a ticket in that time (perhaps not from these stations but in general).

Is this time limit in the conditions of travel (I don't recall coming across it), or just printed on tickets themselves?

 

[Tester]

I can see the logic for a 2 hour limit on validity, but can also imagine circumstances in which one might reasonably fail to acquire a ticket in that time (perhaps not from these stations but in general).

Is this time limit in the conditions of travel (I don't recall coming across it), or just printed on tickets themselves?

I think the idea was to relate it to a particular journey being made, to prove where the journey started to reduce short faring opportunities.

I would be very surprised if any difficulty arose where the two hours may have elapsed but the time was consistent with a journey from that station.

More generous validity would have risked fare evaders carrying one 'just in case'.

 

[MikeWM]

That is very odd. They must have replaced the machine at Millbrook quite recently if it has an orange button in the middle. I have photos of, Beaulieu Road, Holton Heath, Longcross, Millbrook, Redbridge, and all five machines are the same with just a green button and red button. Other photos online of Millbrook also show this. It is only the newer versions of Metric Aura machines that have an orange button in the middle. So that suggests to me that the machine at Millbrook has been replaced recently.

Apologies for the delay in posting a picture. Here we are, taken yesterday evening:

Edit : to add Redbridge, for comparison.

 

[CreeperLoop]

Apologies for the delay in posting a picture. Here we are, taken yesterday evening:

Edit : to add Redbridge, for comparison.

I think the buttons (but not the whole machine) were replaced by SWR at some point no later than January 2023, since the photo on pert.is (May 2016) shows exactly the same PERTIS with the older 2-button panel.

The photo below was taken on 17 Jan. 2023