Petrol panic buying

[Caboose Class]

Did my shopping in York this morning. Not much of a queue at Tesco's and their petrol is still £1.29 (as it was when I last filled up 4 weeks ago).

 

[Gloster]

The government does seem to be expending a lot of energy on solving the problem: inviting foreign drivers to come here for a few months, asking Germans with licences issued before 1997 to drive lorries (*), sending out invitations to people who have just passed enough parts of the test to drive motorhomes, etc. However, none seem to be of any use and may well be merely intended to show they are doing something. What next? “Did you push a Dinky lorry about when you were a child? If so, then you can...” It is a difficult situation, which they are largely responsible for getting themselves (and us) into, but wildly ‘doing something (or anything)’ to show how much they are doing is worse than a modest but coherent strategy.

* - One invitee said that he would stick with his job at an investment bank.

 

[Ianno87]

So, can we conclude that lots of people do, in actual fact, benefit from freedom of movement of workers from other countries then, in keeping us plentifully supplied with fuel and food?

 

[Darandio]

So, can we conclude that lots of people do, in actual fact, benefit from freedom of movement of workers from other countries then, in keeping us plentifully supplied with fuel and food?

Who would have thought!

 

[341o2]

Blimey that’s not a good situation. I’ve tried not to purchase any more than I’ve needed (sounds like you haven’t either).
Hope you get things sorted soon.

Similar situation locally in the New Forest, I passed two of my local stations yesterday, neither had any fuel. Got some last Monday, enough for a week.
I think that part of the problem is once the message gets out that a particular station has fuel, round come the panic buyers and empty it.
This happened last weekend at Brockenhurst, a delivery was made and six hours later all gone.

Meanwhile another development is that thieves are going round with drills and emptying fuel tanks by literally drilling a hole in the tank to steal the fuel. One such victim apparently boasted that she had a full tank, later her son came home by bicycle and disturbed the thieves, as well as the fuel, it will cost £800 to repair
Source Yahoo News

 

[XAM2175]

asking Germans with licences issued before 1997 to drive lorries (*)

It is, if nothing else, a wonderful display of creative thinking

Germans with no HGV experience asked to drive lorries amid UK fuel crisis

Mass appeal automatically sent to holders of pre-1999 German licences, which entitle holder to drive trucks

www.theguardian.com

Thousands of Germans who live in the UK have been written to by the government asking them to drive lorries in an attempt to ease the UK fuel crisis, even though the majority have never been at the wheel of an HGV.

They were included in a 1m-letter mass mailing that also tried to recruit ambulance drivers to get behind the wheel of lorries.

The recruitment drive is aimed at easing the UK’s supply chain shortages and a lack of petrol at forecourts.

The news came as a government minister warned that motorists could face another week of queues at the pumps and an industry body said more than a quarter (26%) of independently owned petrol stations in the UK were still dry.

The Germans were automatically included in the mailout because German driving licences issued before 1999 include an entitlement to drive small- to medium-sized trucks of up to 7.5 tonnes.

A Department for Transport (DfT) spokesperson explained that UK residents from Germany who swapped their licence for a British one would have had that element transferred to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) database. This meant they were included in the HGV category, which also covered ambulance drivers, when the DVLA sent out the letter.

The DfT said: “The letter was automatically sent to almost 1 million people with lorry licences - including a limited number of international residents who were automatically eligible. Anyone wishing to drive professionally faces further tests and training.”

A spokesperson said: “We don’t want ambulance drivers to change jobs, or to be diverted from their vital work saving lives … it was impossible to narrow the copy-list by profession due to personal data protection.”

One 41-year-old German man, who, along with his wife, received a copy of the letter at their London home on Friday morning, told the Independent: “We were quite surprised. I’m sure pay and conditions for HGV drivers have improved, but ultimately I have decided to carry on in my role at an investment bank. ...

 

[jon0844]

SHOCK HORROR! They've extended the visa scheme until March to try and make it a little more likely (emphasis on the word little) that some drivers might consider coming here to help out.

How long until that's extended and we decide that, maybe we should start to allow freedom of movement with the EU and to rejoin the customs union?

 

[chorleyjeff]

SHOCK HORROR! They've extended the visa scheme until March to try and make it a little more likely (emphasis on the word little) that some drivers might consider coming here to help out.

How long until that's extended and we decide that, maybe we should start to allow freedom of movement with the EU and to rejoin the customs union?

A few temporary visas is hadly any sort of move to free movement of labour.
Much more likely to get drivers behind the wheel are decent wages and conditions. And generally perhaps an absence of cheap labour will drive up productivity by means of investment in people, processes and equipment even if well off folk will have to pay more for nannies and gardners.

 

[jon0844]

A few temporary visas is hadly any sort of move to free movement of labour.
Much more likely to get drivers behind the wheel are decent wages and conditions. And generally perhaps an absence of cheap labour will drive up productivity by means of investment in people, processes and equipment even if well off folk will have to pay more for nannies and gardners.

If it's true that BP leaked rumours of a shortage because they'd gone to the Government to ask for visas to be issued (and had been told, no, why not pay people more) then it's clear big businesses want foreign labour back. I suspect that as long as the Tories are in power, they'll likely get what they want. Seems like BP got its wish, but didn't bank on the fact the foreign drivers just laughed at us (hence the extension, which I'm not convinced will work - but who knows?).

I can see these visas being expanded and extended, and if they keep on doing so, more and more industries will demand the same. Meanwhile the smaller firms can't cope with the customs issues (as Amazon and others can) so perhaps they'll be able to band together and convince the Government to consider a customs union.

I fully understand that paying people more and improving working conditions would be great, but do you believe that will ever happen (beyond some temporary stories of people earning bonuses/bounties)? We seem set to relax regulations and protections, not the other way around.

 

[brad465]

If it's true that BP leaked rumours of a shortage because they'd gone to the Government to ask for visas to be issued (and had been told, no, why not pay people more) then it's clear big businesses want foreign labour back. I suspect that as long as the Tories are in power, they'll likely get what they want. Seems like BP got its wish, but didn't bank on the fact the foreign drivers just laughed at us (hence the extension, which I'm not convinced will work - but who knows?).

I can see these visas being expanded and extended, and if they keep on doing so, more and more industries will demand the same. Meanwhile the smaller firms can't cope with the customs issues (as Amazon and others can) so perhaps they'll be able to band together and convince the Government to consider a customs union.

I fully understand that paying people more and improving working conditions would be great, but do you believe that will ever happen (beyond some temporary stories of people earning bonuses/bounties)? We seem set to relax regulations and protections, not the other way around.

So much for trickle down economics...

 

[jon0844]

Wasn't that supposed to happen in the US when Trump gave all those tax cuts?

 

[brad465]

Wasn't that supposed to happen in the US when Trump gave all those tax cuts?

Not only was it supposed to but didn't, the benefits to the wider economy were short lived.

If the Government really want this acute shortage in lorry drivers to end without a major relaxation of visas to foreign drivers, they're going to have to intervene in the training capacity and mandate higher salaries if firms won't do this themselves (although at least some are). They need to announce investment in recruiting instructors, test invigilators and more on a scale large enough to make a significant shortage dent, not making tests easier and relieving car drivers from tests to tow caravans, which are both dangerous.

More long term, and perhaps in the spirit of this forum, investment needs to go into rail freight capacity to get more drivers off the roads, which while it won't be a magic bullet, everything that can help needs doing.

 

[richa2002]

So, can we conclude that lots of people do, in actual fact, benefit from freedom of movement of workers from other countries then, in keeping us plentifully supplied with fuel and food?

I don't think many on the Brexit side denied that. It was at the expense of working standards/pay, an exploding population number and all other issues associated with large scale immigration that was the problem.

I find it strange to think a sustainable way to run a country is to simply continually import labour, which aside from anything, is a drain on the countries they've come from. Meanwhile, we have our own people doing a myriad of non-jobs in the service economy after wasting x years at university doing useless degrees.

 

[Bald Rick]

I find it strange to think a sustainable way to run a country is to simply continually import labour, which aside from anything, is a drain on the countries they've come from.

And yet pretty much every Western economy has been doing it for decades; some for centuries. Are the6 all wrong?

 

[Mojo]

GB News had an 'Anxiety Therapist' on one of their shows this morning. Found it quite interesting to hear about the science behind panic buying and of course a reminder that it's nothing new and has been around since medieval times, despite the on-line comments trying to make out that it's reflective of modern society.

 

[yorksrob]

I think we can certainly conclude that having a closed door policy on immigration from our near neighbours is counterproductive. But then again, so is exploiting them for cheap labour.

I have every sympathy for continental Lorry drivers who've been treated poorly, just as I do for the UK ones who've decided to retire. The interview with the chap who after a long day of work was prevented from stretching his legs due to the Draconian covid restrictions springs to mind. If you can get paid as well at home, why would you travel here to work ?

The key has to be better pay and conditions.

As for the situation now, getting the army in (where would we be without them) is probably the best short term fix.

If it's true that BP leaked rumours of a shortage because they'd gone to the Government to ask for visas to be issued (and had been told, no, why not pay people more) then it's clear big businesses want foreign labour back. I suspect that as long as the Tories are in power, they'll likely get what they want. Seems like BP got its wish, but didn't bank on the fact the foreign drivers just laughed at us (hence the extension, which I'm not convinced will work - but who knows?).

I can see these visas being expanded and extended, and if they keep on doing so, more and more industries will demand the same. Meanwhile the smaller firms can't cope with the customs issues (as Amazon and others can) so perhaps they'll be able to band together and convince the Government to consider a customs union.

I fully understand that paying people more and improving working conditions would be great, but do you believe that will ever happen (beyond some temporary stories of people earning bonuses/bounties)? We seem set to relax regulations and protections, not the other way around.

If that's the case, BP need to be made to cough up another way.

 

[reddragon]

GB News had an 'Anxiety Therapist' on one of their shows this morning. Found it quite interesting to hear about the science behind panic buying and of course a reminder that it's nothing new and has been around since medieval times, despite the on-line comments trying to make out that it's reflective of modern society.

Ah you are their viewer, thought someone must be lol

 

[gg1]

 

[DarloRich]

Fuel Crisis update:

Another day on the motorway. Number of tankers seen: 0

Southbound on the M1 this evening all the matrix sign south of Leicester told me every service station has either no fuel or only fuel for HGV's.

Despite an early doors departure this morning I noticed a tanker unloading at Asda. There was already a long que on the dual carriage way even though it was very early. The nearest filling station to me ( Esso) was closed having run dry. The local BP's were still closed. Luckily I was able to get some diesel at a country service station so averted an issue despite paying over the odds for the privilege. I was able to fill up with diesel at Asda this evening but unleaded had already run out.

Tesco was closed again today but a tanker was discouraging it's load as I drove past just after 21:00.

 

[bspahh]

I wouldn't put it past him, the last leg by train or tram, claiming to be 'green' by using public transport.

The Conservatives tweeted this picture at 6.49pm today

with the text:

We’re on the way to Manchester.
We’re getting on with the job.
We’re delivering on the people’s priorities. #CPC21

I don't know which way they are going to Manchester

 

[MattRat]

So, can we conclude that lots of people do, in actual fact, benefit from freedom of movement of workers from other countries then, in keeping us plentifully supplied with fuel and food?

The conclusion is we love abusing cheap labour.....

 

[Ediswan]

I don't know which way they are going to Manchester

IF he were heading for Manchester, it is possible. Maybe he really hates Euston or Pendolinos.

Also, the alternate text on the image says 'LNER Power Car', the large door suggests a DVT.

 

[Gloster]

The Sunday Telegraph already has a front page picture of Johnson arriving at the Midland Hotel in Manchester. Presumably some fast driving somewhere. Did he chose LNER to avoid arriving at Manchester in a train partly owned by an Italian company?

 

[the sniper]

I don't know which way they are going to Manchester

Via Woodhead.

 

[al78]

So, can we conclude that lots of people do, in actual fact, benefit from freedom of movement of workers from other countries then, in keeping us plentifully supplied with fuel and food?

Can we also conclude that lacking self sufficiency to the degree that the UK does is a bad idea?

 

[Andrew S]

I take issue with this sort of "fuel rationing." Like the emotive response which tends to prevent proper resilience spend, it's all very well to gush over helping "Doctors and Teachers"

Sorry, I seem to not be able to quote multiple posts. However the above was in response to allowing HGVs and emergency service vehicles priority when fuel supplies are limited. Doctors and teachers don't typically drive HGVs or blue light vehicles.

 

[al78]

GB News had an 'Anxiety Therapist' on one of their shows this morning. Found it quite interesting to hear about the science behind panic buying and of course a reminder that it's nothing new and has been around since medieval times, despite the on-line comments trying to make out that it's reflective of modern society.

"Science behind panic buying"?

I must be a one in some million human being, as I never had the urge to panic buy last year during the fear the shelves would be empty, or now during the fear of being unable to get fuel. Perhaps my brain is wired differently to most of the human race, or it is some side effect of the brain damage I suffered six years ago.

 

[brad465]

"Science behind panic buying"?

I must be a one in some million human being, as I never had the urge to panic buy last year during the fear the shelves would be empty, or now during the fear of being unable to get fuel. Perhaps my brain is wired differently to most of the human race, or it is some side effect of the brain damage I suffered six years ago.

Perhaps you'd care to take your upbringing and education experiences, compare them to those who are panic buying, then demand those with authority (Governments/councils/relevant industries) implement into society what you experienced education wise to get more of the population doing the same. Otherwise nothing will change.

 

[al78]

And yet pretty much every Western economy has been doing it for decades; some for centuries. Are the6 all wrong?

When it comes to sustainability, we seem to have dug ourselves a hole which, if we carry on, will bit us in the backside hard eventually. Human history has shown that societies that lived unsustainably ultimately perished or at least suffered badly.

We are told that we need more working people because health care for elderly people (especially those with ongoing health conditions) and pensions is expensive, and the ratio of retired people to working people is increasing, generating an increasing tax burden on those working people. There is an upper limit to how much tax revenue the government can squeeze out of people (because wages are finite and a basic income required to live is greater than zero). The standard solution is to either increase the birth rate, which in a couple of decades leads to more young people entering the job market, or have people move here from abroad for work, who then contribute to tax revenue. The problem with this is those working people eventually become retired people, and you then need even more people in the workplace to generate tax revenue to support those retired people. What you end up with if you want to keep balancing social care with tax revenue is an increasing population. An increasing population is not sustainable because land space does not increase over time, so there is an upper limit to how high the population can get before undesirable things start happening (like, for example, massive house price inflation due to demand exceeding supply).

The current mantra of continunal economic growth is ultimately "wrong" because it is unsustainable as a result of resources being finite. The solution is a steady state economy, but that is an anathema to capitalism, so you need to ditch capitalism and create a completely new way of living that is compatible with resource consumption being balanced by resource creation. Good luck with that.

Perhaps you'd care to take your upbringing and education experiences, compare them to those who are panic buying, then demand those with authority (Governments/councils/relevant industries) implement into society what you experienced education wise to get more of the population doing the same. Otherwise nothing will change.

To be honest I wouldn't mind doing that if anyone was interested, alternatively I would like to talk to some of those who have been panic buying to try and understand their thinking, and I would be happy to explain why I don't panic buy.

 

[Bald Rick]

GB News had an 'Anxiety Therapist' on one of their shows this morning. Found it quite interesting to hear about the science behind panic buying and of course a reminder that it's nothing new and has been around since medieval times, despite the on-line comments trying to make out that it's reflective of modern society.

I do t know what’s more interesting: the anxiety therapist, or that you were watching GB News!