• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Photo of Nightstar destinations on live departure boards

Status
Not open for further replies.

33Hz

Member
Joined
2 Dec 2010
Messages
513
Sorry to resurrect this ancient thread, but I wondered if anyone has the photo mentioned here (or any similar one for that matter) please?

uk.railway is long gone from Google News and searching other Usenet archives I don't find one going back that far :'(


 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

duesselmartin

Established Member
Joined
18 Jan 2014
Messages
1,913
Location
Duisburg, Germany
that is interesting. Thank you.
To me NightStar seems to be a complete shambles. Ordering and building rolling stock for a service that was never to be and selling them for a penny to Canada.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,683
Location
Redcar
To me NightStar seems to be a complete shambles. Ordering and building rolling stock for a service that was never to be and selling them for a penny to Canada.

Whole thing both NightStar and Regional Eurostar was a shambles really. Just came along probably a decade or so too late as by the time they were ready for service the rise of the budget airline had killed the market stone dead (putting aside any issues of border and customs formalities). If it had been launched in the early-80s it might have been a different story perhaps.

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the photo referred to above (despite having been a member here when terrifyingly old thread was new, I've been here to long!) but would love to see it if anyone else does!
 

33Hz

Member
Joined
2 Dec 2010
Messages
513
I think even a couple of years earlier would have been enough - if it had still been in the ownership of public BR instead of privatised operators, both may have stood a chance and would have been difficult to cancel soon after starting. Perhaps it might even have forced the border control issue to be more realistic.

Having travelled on the rolling stock in Canada, I think it would have been popular. Well designed compartments with just the right amount of comfort not to be over the top. Bathrooms that are large enough and keep the wet stuff inside. I certainly preferred it to the equivalent Club Class compartment on the new Caledonian Sleeper for practicality.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,893
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Considering BR cancelled the Night Ferry...

True.

It was the growth of low cost airlines that killed it. It's a bit like Beeching - we can shout all we want that some of the lines shouldn't have closed (though some definitely should) but at the time it was in a different culture where the car was the future.
 

popeter45

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2019
Messages
1,109
Location
london
with the need to reduce air travel i do feel DfT really should at least investigate what can be done to make alternative forms of transport easier be that ajusting customs rules to allow nightstar/regional eurostar est plans or better intergration of current eurostar services with UK services
the culture now is easyjet and ryanair but with climate change that culture will change and the question is what will replace them?
 

Cloud Strife

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2014
Messages
1,819
There are absolutely no reason why they can't change the rules to allow border controls onboard. Countries such as Poland/Ukraine manage just fine with onboard controls, so why can't the UK?
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,631
Location
Gateway to the South West
There are absolutely no reason why they can't change the rules to allow border controls onboard. Countries such as Poland/Ukraine manage just fine with onboard controls, so why can't the UK?
At a guess, cost comes into it. Once border control people are on board, they are whisked away to somewhere else and need to be brought home somehow. That may not coincide with a convenient reverse working (if indeed they have a requirement to work in both directions) and are not available to do 'actual work' for part of a shift.

Maybe?
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,051
Location
Airedale
At a guess, cost comes into it. Once border control people are on board, they are whisked away to somewhere else and need to be brought home somehow. That may not coincide with a convenient reverse working (if indeed they have a requirement to work in both directions) and are not available to do 'actual work' for part of a shift.

Maybe?
And/or (I suspect "or rather") Govt policy is not to let potential illegal immigrants across the border at all - which would mean border controls between Lille and Calais-Frethun perhaps?
 

rf_ioliver

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
868
There are absolutely no reason why they can't change the rules to allow border controls onboard. Countries such as Poland/Ukraine manage just fine with onboard controls, so why can't the UK?
Because the UK is "special". THis point has been raised before: because of the "threat of immigrants", security, etc etc this can not be done. There are older posts on this exact subject. I raised it once regarding the controls on the Finland-Russia trains but was told (quite clearly) by one posts that the France-UK border is so plagued with immigrants and so sensitive, comapared to Fin-Rus for example, that performing border checks on the train is simply impossible. The politics of this are also an issue - especially since a certain referendum a few years ago.

I've done Helsinki-St.Petersburg a few times - you don't mess with the Finnish nor Russian border guards - both sides are extremely efficient and very effective at their jobs.
 

Cloud Strife

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2014
Messages
1,819
At a guess, cost comes into it. Once border control people are on board, they are whisked away to somewhere else and need to be brought home somehow. That may not coincide with a convenient reverse working (if indeed they have a requirement to work in both directions) and are not available to do 'actual work' for part of a shift.

Maybe?

Yes, and this is the real problem. One possible option is for UK entry controls to be carried out in Calais while the train waits, which is how it's done on many other borders. Schengen exit controls could be carried out at the same time, and it should be possible to create a system linking seat numbers to the passenger in advance. This way, anyone who needs further processing can be removed from the train in Calais, while the vast majority of passengers would need a quick scan of the passport and off they go.

by one posts that the France-UK border is so plagued with immigrants and so sensitive, comapared to Fin-Rus for example, that performing border checks on the train is simply impossible.

Which is hilarious, given that the Finnish border has serious problems with smuggling. For me, it's just an example of bad will, nothing more. If illegal immigrants are such an issue, then limit Eurostar on such journeys to UK+EU citizens and no more.

And/or (I suspect "or rather") Govt policy is not to let potential illegal immigrants across the border at all - which would mean border controls between Lille and Calais-Frethun perhaps?

It's what, 25 minutes or something between Lille and Calais? 25 minutes there, plus 15 minutes to remove anyone in Calais should be more than enough time to carry out border control.

The problem is that there's a huge charade about border controls in the first place. Most people are quickly checked with minimum fuss, even on 'hard' external borders like Poland-Belarus. I went to Belarus two years ago, and it took no more than 20 seconds to get through the police controls into Belarus, with another ten seconds while they looked in my bag for drugs.
 

Austriantrain

Established Member
Joined
13 Aug 2018
Messages
1,321
The border controls are just one issue; one, which might in theory be overcome by having passengers pre-cleared by E*, such as airlines have to do lest they have to take passengers back and pay horrendous fines (the EU does the same, BTW). After all, British border guards are not outbased at Charles-de-Gaulle airport for instance; passengers are checked upon arrival in London.

But then you have security controls, which are almost equally a difficult topic (almost, because at least local staff can do it). These also could be abolished since other rail tunnels of equal length don’t seem to need them and as long as not every lorry or passenger car is completely scanned, security risks for the channel tunnel remain anyway.

However, at the moment politics dictate that checks have to get more thorough all the time, no matter the cost. So nothing will change for the foreseeable.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
. If illegal immigrants are such an issue, then limit Eurostar on such journeys to UK+EU citizens and no more.

Obviously not massively practical given the popularity of Eurostar with US and Far Eastern tourists to visit both London and Paris in one trip.
 

JonasB

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2016
Messages
940
Location
Sweden
Which is hilarious, given that the Finnish border has serious problems with smuggling. For me, it's just an example of bad will, nothing more. If illegal immigrants are such an issue, then limit Eurostar on such journeys to UK+EU citizens and no more.

But to be fair, checking the passports in a fully booked Allegro train (340 seats) is not the same as checking a fully booked e320 (900 seats).
 

popeter45

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2019
Messages
1,109
Location
london
if eurostar used old style loco+carriages that could split/join i always wondered if for some locations if you could have a boarder car that all the checks are done on then is decoupled before the crossing
e.g. lets say you have 8 carriages Berlin-London to combine with another 8 at lille or brussels you run that that as loco+8 carriages+boarder car + 2-3 carriages people actually board
then as the train is in motion you pass thru this moving boarder into the actual london bound carriages
 

rf_ioliver

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
868
But to be fair, checking the passports in a fully booked Allegro train (340 seats) is not the same as checking a fully booked e320 (900 seats).

Yes, your passports are taken from you and stamped, visas are *thoroughly* checked, and also done twice, seperately by the Finns and the Russians, and they do ask questions - so not the same, probably more complex, especially as Allegro doesn't have any security at the stations, you can theoretically just board the train without going to Russia. VR's guards deal with that quite effectively too.

@Cloud Strife
Which is hilarious, given that the Finnish border has serious problems with smuggling.
Absolutely, the amount of Finnish cheese going eastwards....Yes, there is a Russian Cheese Mafia: https://yle-fi.translate.goog/uutiset/3-11525524?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=nui though they don't use Allegro
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
3,469
Location
Glasgow
If illegal immigrants are such an issue, then limit Eurostar on such journeys to UK+EU citizens and no more.
Obviously not massively practical given the popularity of Eurostar with US and Far Eastern tourists to visit both London and Paris in one trip.

And also the fact that large numbers of people live legitimately in both the UK and EU while being citizens of neither.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top