Pick-up only

[aal7]

If you attempt to leave a train when it calls at a station "to pick up only", what happens? How do they enforce this?

For example the 1610 from Euston to Bangor stops at Milton Keynes Central to pick up only. What's to stop you boarding the train at Euston and getting off at Milton Keynes?

More to the point, WHY does it stop only to pick up?

 

[PermitToTravel]

If you are caught on the train before Milton Keynes, the conductor will attempt to make you buy a ticket to Crewe, the reasoning being that your ticket to Milton Keynes is not valid on a train not stopping there.

 

[bb21]

More to the point, WHY does it stop only to pick up?

One of them is to leave more space to long-distances passengers than having all seats taken up by commuters who have many other options.

 

[SickyNicky]

One of them is to leave more space to long-distances passengers than having all seats taken up by commuters who have many other options.

And another is to stop people splitting tickets on peak services from Euston...

 

[zoneking]

At Clapham Junction SWT mainline platforms all trains are pick-up only (9) and set down only (7). I think this is to speed up boarding and alighting and to stop short hop passengers from using these services. There are loads of other services between Waterloo & CLJ.

 

[jon0844]

I do think that the primary reason is to make sure there's room for long distance passengers, not those who will get off at Milton Keynes and travel with mostly fresh air the rest of the way - while people got left behind at Euston.

 

[PG]

1.6 Split Ticketing

1.6.2 Valid Combinations of Tickets

Section 19 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage tells us what combinations of tickets are allowed.
​

"You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not."​

And another is to stop people splitting tickets on peak services from Euston...

Therefore are we to take it that for the purposes of complying with section 19(b) of the NRCoC that the call at a station where you change from one ticket to another must not have either a pick up only or set down only restriction?

 

[SickyNicky]

Therefore are we to take it that for the purposes of complying with section 19(b) of the NRCoC that the call at a station where you change from one ticket to another must not have either a pick up only or set down only restriction?

Hence the ... in my original answer - bound to cause controvesy.

For what it's worth, I believe that splits tickets probably ARE valid on services that "pick up only" or "set down only". But I'm sure that won't be the interpretation of gateline or on-train staff.

 

[PG]

Haven't actually tried it myself but would be interested to know if it is permissible or not - any TMs/Guards have an opinion on this?

 

[island]

Therefore are we to take it that for the purposes of complying with section 19(b) of the NRCoC that the call at a station where you change from one ticket to another must not have either a pick up only or set down only restriction?

This has been discussed at length on a number of threads and no conclusive consensus has been arrived at.

 

[Keith Jarrett]

At Clapham Junction SWT mainline platforms all trains are pick-up only (9) and set down only (7). I think this is to speed up boarding and alighting and to stop short hop passengers from using these services. There are loads of other services between Waterloo & CLJ.

Most SWT T/Ms seem to ignore this fact. Going out of Waterloo, they alway announce the Clapham Junction stop and advise people to move forward on 10/12 car trains as door only open on front 5/8. Going into Waterloo, there again seems to be no problem with jumping on at platform 7. Last Sunday, one even welcomed passengers (several) joining the Waterloo-bound train at Clapham Junction.

 

[Hadders]

A few years ago I attempted to board a Hull Trains service at Stevenage which was set down only (as it was going to Kings Cross).

Only a local door was opened and I was stopped from boarding the train by the guard who told me they weren't allowed to pick up at Stevenage.

All East Coast services were set down/pick up at Stevenage but I think this has now been removed. Never had a problem boarding southbound services that were set down only although I never did chance the northbound ones from Kings cross.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Yes, East Coast now carry passengers between Stevenage and London. You apparently might even be served a meal if travelling first class.

 

[Marton]

Yes, East Coast now carry passengers between Stevenage and London. You apparently might even be served a meal if travelling first class.

Although not on the 2115 dep from Newcastle arriving KX 0103.

I remember an announcement a few years ago after Stevenage. "For the people boarding now it's a full open single from York". Not sure if anyone was caught


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[hassaanhc]

I'm sure I recall a story on here concerning a late evening long-distance FGW service out of Paddington. It was pick-up only at Reading but people used it anyway, and one day they decided to not stop there and provide alternatives for the Reading pickup. So those hoping to get off at Reading found themselves way past there and got charged singles from Paddington to that station and obviously had to pay to get back again!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Most SWT T/Ms seem to ignore this fact. Going out of Waterloo, they alway announce the Clapham Junction stop and advise people to move forward on 10/12 car trains as door only open on front 5/8. Going into Waterloo, there again seems to be no problem with jumping on at platform 7. Last Sunday, one even welcomed passengers (several) joining the Waterloo-bound train at Clapham Junction.

The platform 7 up fasts are no longer set down only; they even have a departure indicator on the platform to announce the trains...

 

[Deerfold]

Although not on the 2115 dep from Newcastle arriving KX 0103.

I remember an announcement a few years ago after Stevenage. "For the people boarding now it's a full open single from York". Not sure if anyone was caught


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Rather a shame for people trying to get out of Stevenage - as this train is timetabled 27 minutes later than the last FCC service.

I assume it's so the train can leave early if need be.

 

[TEW]

The platform 7 up fasts are no longer set down only; they even have a departure indicator on the platform to announce the trains...

Not that it actually displays any details of trains, and hasn't done for as long as I can remember. It just displays Welcome to Clapham Junction on it. Fast services from Clapham to Waterloo are advertised on the summary screens providing a list of the next departures to Waterloo though.

 

[calc7]

What is (theoretically) the biggest fare a passenger could be chinged for on the "set down only" SWT services?

 

[Urban Gateline]

What is (theoretically) the biggest fare a passenger could be chinged for on the "set down only" SWT services?

The 0043 (2305 ex Waterloo) from Totton to Poole maybe? It's set down only after Southampton Central, so someone boarding at Parkstone could be charged from Southampton to Poole, though thats only £14.40! That's the most I can find, I'm sure someone can top it though

 

[bb21]

I can't check at the moment, but isn't the 0105 set down only after Woking? It certainly used to be the case if not any more when I used to catch it frequently. So the biggest I can think of is a Woking - Southampton Central single.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I can't check at the moment, but isn't the 0105 set down only after Woking? It certainly used to be the case if not any more when I used to catch it frequently. So the biggest I can think of is a Woking - Southampton Central single.

Yes good spot! £23.50, Kerching! I very much doubt any Guard would enforce the restrictions on the last few trains unless they have a death wish!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Therefore are we to take it that for the purposes of complying with section 19(b) of the NRCoC that the call at a station where you change from one ticket to another must not have either a pick up only or set down only restriction?

... in my original answer - bound to cause controvesy.

For what it's worth, I believe that splits tickets probably ARE valid on services that "pick up only" or "set down only". But I'm sure that won't be the interpretation of gateline or on-train staff.

My 'interpretation', and that is all that it can be, is that the use of 'split tickets' for journeys on which one ticket expires and the next one is enganged at a station where the train stops for either 'pick-up only' or 'set down only', is undefined.

If I am correct, then it would be unwise for anyone, passenger or staff, to assert that such an undefined combination is either valid or invalid.

However, if legal advice was sought on the validity of this specific combination of passenger, tickets, stations and trains, then having read all the publically available documents, it's my view that the balance of that advice would be to consider those tickets to be valid for travel.

 

[455driver]

Yes good spot! £23.50, Kerching! I very much doubt any Guard would enforce the restrictions on the last few trains unless they have a death wish!

It is set down only so if it is replaced by buses/diverted because of engineering work SWT only have to run buses to the missed stations and don't have to bother with running buses from the missed stations .

 

[34D]

The restriction is 'pick up only' not 'tickets that don't start from this station only'. As the train doesn't pick you up at your split point, then no issue (in my view).

 

[cuccir]

However, if legal advice was sought on the validity of this specific combination of passenger, tickets, stations and trains, then having read all the publically available documents, it's my view that the balance of that advice would be to consider those tickets to be valid for travel.

Indeed. I'd take an educated guess that if this ever came to court, the passenger would not be found guilty of any offence, and the National Rail Conditions of Carriage would be miraculously and coincidentally changed 24 hours later!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not that it actually displays any details of trains, and hasn't done for as long as I can remember. It just displays Welcome to Clapham Junction on it. Fast services from Clapham to Waterloo are advertised on the summary screens providing a list of the next departures to Waterloo though.

Before they changed to the "1st train x minutes" countdown last year it certainly did show trains with times just like any other indicator.