Platform tickets

[district]

What are the future of platform tickets? Personally I like them, as they prevent barrier staff giving you trouble with allowing you onto platforms.

I asked FGW why they didn't sell them at Paddington, and got this reply:

Ref: [District]/FGW

Dear Mr [District]

Thank you for your email of 3 October 2011 regarding platform tickets. I was sorry to learn you are disappointed that we do not sell platform tickets anymore. I am pleased to tell you what our policy is, and why we no longer issue platform tickets.

Until the mid 1980s, British Rail had barriers on the platform where all tickets were manually checked. People needed a platform ticket to get through these checks, if they were seeing someone off or meeting a train. So when British Rail went over to the current system of 'open stations', the public could come and go as they pleased - and the need for platform tickets disappeared.

Some ticket offices did still issue platform tickets if they were asked, although they weren't legally required or even part of our ticket range. Collectors often bought them and we were getting more and more requests to post them out. This caused a lot of extra work for booking offices, when really their priority has to be the customers who need to make travel arrangements. So now we don't issue platform tickets at all.

Instead, our colleagues assess each non-traveller's reasons for being on the platform individually. They are trained to consider safety, security, the reason someone gives for wanting access, and so on. They use their professional judgement to make reasoned decisions.

With the increasing focus on safety and security we are especially keen to keep out any groups that might harm our passengers. Naturally we take the terrorist threat very seriously, but we're particularly concerned about day-to-day security - stopping pickpockets, luggage thieves, vagrants, graffiti taggers and other vandals. If they could buy a platform ticket they would also buy the right to access all areas on the station, and our colleagues would be far less able to challenge anyone they suspected.

I was also very concerned to learn that one of our colleagues misadvised you that London Paddington station is owned by First Great Western. I would like to inform you that First Great Western manages most of the staff members. However the station is indeed owned by Network Rail.

I would like to log your comments and forward it to our Senior Managers. To do this, I would be grateful if you could advise me of the incident date and time along with the department (for e.g. platform or helpdesk staff) they belonged to and I will look into it for you straightaway. My address and contact number are at the top of this email and it will help if you could quote the reference [District] in future contact.

Thank you for contacting us. I hope to hear from you very soon.

Yours sincerely

So, railforums, what are your opinions on platform tickets? I often find they are set to reject on the barriers. Should they be abolished or should they remain part of our railway? How much do they cost at your local station?

 

[jha4ceb]

20p platform tickets were available at Leeds until a few years ago. There used to be a platform ticket machine in front of the manual ticket barriers (which are now automatic barriers). As far as I know these tickets are no longer available.

I find it hard to see how the "safety and security" arguments against platform tickets hold any water. If someone wanted to cause trouble on the platforms, couldn't they simply purchase the cheapest ticket available from that station (e.g. a £1 single to the next stop), which would still allow them access onto the platforms? Abolishing platform tickets can't prevent that.

 

[district]

They are 10p at Ashford International, only available from the ticket office sadly.

 

[WillPS]

I'd like for there to be some kind of ability to use the station without travelling, that wasn't dependent on somebody's judgement.

 

[John @ home]

20p platform tickets were available at Leeds until a few years ago.

They are still available at the same price from the ticket office. I buy them two or three times a year for meet-and-greet purposes. When I have completed all the more important items in life, I ought to pursue the point that for at least the last six years their price has contravened the instructions in The Manual (and its predecessor).

The Manual -> Fares (not in Fares Data) -> Platform Tickets

Where sold, they cost ten pence (10p) from the station ticket office.

 

[First class]

Platform Tickets are subject to VAT AFAIK,

If you want to get one over on Northern, get a receipt when you purchase your Platform Ticket. If it doesn't show a VAT number, VAT rate etc you can report them to HMRC IRRC.

I suspect Northern won't have considered it as being subject to VAT, and only a normal receipt provided without relevant details, also meaning Northern aren't paying the right amount of tax!

 

[evil_hippo]

Platform Tickets are subject to VAT AFAIK,

If you want to get one over on Northern, get a receipt when you purchase your Platform Ticket. If it doesn't show a VAT number, VAT rate etc you can report them to HMRC IRRC.

I suspect Northern won't have considered it as being subject to VAT, and only a normal receipt provided without relevant details, also meaning Northern aren't paying the right amount of tax!

Sounds like a way of getting platform tickets immediately withdrawn.

 

[island]

What would be the point in doing that? Seems a bit daft to me.

 

[4SRKT]

What would be the point in doing that? Seems a bit daft to me.

The alternative being to allow Northern (if they are so doing) to continue intentionally or not to defraud the VAT man?

 

[First class]

What would be the point in doing that? Seems a bit daft to me.

Northern are:

1) I suspect not paying VAT correctly or at least not providing the correct VAT receipts, intentionally or not...

2) Are charging 100% more than permitted to do, (by ATOC), just so someone can access a platform.

 

[island]

Leeds is managed by Network Rail (although perhaps that doesn't make a huge difference).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Platform Tickets are subject to VAT AFAIK,

If you want to get one over on Northern, get a receipt when you purchase your Platform Ticket. If it doesn't show a VAT number, VAT rate etc you can report them to HMRC IRRC.

I suspect Northern won't have considered it as being subject to VAT, and only a normal receipt provided without relevant details, also meaning Northern aren't paying the right amount of tax!

All receipts issued by a Northern Rail ticket office machine have Northern's VAT details on them, even though, in most cases, VAT is not paid.

 

[4SRKT]

Tickets at Leeds are flogged by Northern staff.

 

[Lampshade]

Leeds is managed by Network Rail (although perhaps that doesn't make a huge difference).

Shouldn't make a difference; they're 10p at Manchester Piccadilly, London Bridge and London Victoria.

 

[oversteer]

It's an interesting point, tickets for public transport generally zero rated, so a platform ticket would be subject to VAT.

However as the amount is sub £250 (hopefully!), the VAT receipt only needs the organisation's VAT details, not a breakdown of each item.

Whether Northern are paying this VAT or not is not for me to suggest