"Please avoid using any third party applications"

[trebor79]

What if it changes short-notice? You'd have complaints about people missing trains as they were on the wrong platform!

The solution to that is simple - you play an (automatic) announcement on the original platform periodicially before the train departs and ensure all the information boards are updated immediately. And you make sure there is a train describer board at the entrance to every platform so that arriving passengers know to go elsewhere.

If you're announcing a platform change too close to departure for people to make it in time from the original platform, you're announcing it too late, full stop.

It's not rocket science and is standard practice in many European countries.

Indeed, and exactly what used to happen on British stations back when the "customers" were "passengers" and not viewed as self-loading freight to be afforded the absolute minimum of convenience.

 

[fandroid]

I was at Waterloo last Friday at around 15:30 waiting for the 15:50 to Yeovil Junction with the departure screens showing "platforms 5-11" (seems to be standard at Waterloo to narrow down where trains will be departing from, which seems quite helpful to me).

Anyway, a class 159 was sitting at platform 7 with the rear coach destination indicator helpfully showing Yeovil Junction. Needless to say, there were quite a few people already on board...

I travel very often between Waterloo and Basingstoke and it's noticeable that the platform for Salisbury line trains is often announced a lot earlier than trains via Winchester. I suspect that's due to the Salisbury line trains normally being timetabled to spend longer in platform at Waterloo than the others are. As far as I'm aware, Waterloo doesn't hide the new destination of a train that's already arrived.

 

[secretlondon]

That would be the South London one

Vauxhall trains generally go from predictable platforms. However a couple of weeks ago my Surbiton train was changed to the closed platforms, which was fun (no they weren’t unlocked)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, and exactly what used to happen on British stations back when the "customers" were "passengers" and not viewed as self-loading freight to be afforded the absolute minimum of convenience.

It certainly does feel like that airport-style "the SLF are a nuisance" mentality has crept into the rail system.

 

[Trainbike46]

What if it changes short-notice? You'd have complaints about people missing trains as they were on the wrong platform!

Now clue how DB handles that, but NS displays on the platform the train was scheduled to depart from something along the lines of:
" 14:12 IC to Amsterdam will depart from platform 14"
Platform alterations are announced as well

 

[CarrotPie]

Now clue how DB handles that, but NS displays on the platform the train was scheduled to depart from something along the lines of:
" 14:12 IC to Amsterdam will depart from platform 14"
Platform alterations are announced as well

And in Finland, platform screens highlight changed platforms with a red background. If a train that normally uses platform 8 uses 12 instead, that train will continue to appear on P8's boards, telling you to go to P12 instead. Announcements are also made along the lines of, "InterCity 178 from Helsinki to Tampere stops exceptionally at track 4." I don't see anything stopping this being replicated in the UK?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

To be honest, I can very much see the point of this at Paddington. Great Western services have been in a rotten state for a few months, thanks to a series of infrastructure problems and the well-documented IET availability issues. Services are being chopped, replanned, turned back short on a daily basis.

The first time I heard the announcement was yesterday. It was absolutely the right call. Services were leaving out of order, as and when drivers were available and delayed inbound trains turned up. The announcers were doing a good job of telling people which would be the next service for Reading, how long delays were going to be, and so on. You wouldn't have got that from the app (and yes, I was looking at RTT as ever!).

When the railway is running better, and it absolutely should be, then yes - information should be seamless and it shouldn't matter whether it's delivered to the passenger via a tannoy announcement, a platform screen or a phone. But in the situation as it stands right now at Paddington, I can absolutely see why they're making these announcements.

 

[Trainbike46]

Personally, I think there should be standard of platforms have to be listed at least a certain amount of time ahead of departure, except in cases of disruption, when they should be listed as soon as they are available instead.

I'd suggest at least 20 minutes before departure would be a good timeframe, because that gives people ample time to get to the platform. if the train is still being cleaned, just keep the doors locked.

I also think the published departure time should be the time the doors are locked, not the time it actually starts moving. As a passenger, what matters to me is the time by which I should be on a train, not the time a train starts moving. The "doors close 1/2/3 minutes before departure" signs just confuse everything

 

[Lemmy99uk]

On one instance a train is required to be locked up with all passengers off to couple up - this delayed the train's departure and subsequently lost it's path on the finite mainline.

I can understand the need to lock the doors, but why do all the passengers have to be off?

Trains attach and detach with people on board all the time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely if the train is departing then no one will be waiting at the platform for it to depart.

I think the concern to be fair was people standing there for the next one. But that's kind of irrelevant when you take the "tip out, lock up, advertise" approach as you wouldn't be actively sending people there when the train was moving.

I can understand the need to lock the doors, but why do all the passengers have to be off?

Trains attach and detach with people on board all the time.

I asked a few people about this with regard to Euston (where people have to be off) vs Northampton (where they don't), and supposedly it was to do with signal positions and how close to them/the buffers the manoeuvre goes. However splitting/joining at London terminal platforms isn't that common, and you know which trains it applies to.

 

[bramling]

I like this comment. He describes the exact process and then arrogantly dismisses it.
Like you would know

Changing platforms in this way wouldn’t really solve any issues, as it’s still going to show up on apps.

 

[Tom]

This is an interesting thread. It frankly hints towards a terrible customer experience borne out from problems caused by whatever reason. The solution is never to remove options.

I am also left wondering if there has been an EQIA on this, particularly given there appears to be an assumption that those who may otherwise need it would always request assistance. I think there has been enough information around to know that the passenger assistance system is not the best, and a lot of people who could otherwise manage themselves will continue to do so. But this seems to hint towards a desire to remove some individuals' independence.

I think it also shows a lack of understanding and awareness of the current abilities and potential capabilities of the systems behind mobile apps - both driven by the official systems and also third party services. No system is perfect - but neither are the departure boards. This feels like Paddington is setting itself up to be, to some degree, Euston v2.

With a personal hat on. If the situation is so bad to want people to ignore their chosen method of getting information, why not engage with those developers to get your supposedly correct message out? With my professional hat on, my door is always open.

 

[MrJeeves]

But given that the apps IME very rarely know about late departures from the origin station, I would be very surprised if Trainline did.

The apps know what the TOCs put into Darwin (provided TTL use Darwin and not something else).

If the TOC puts in a new ETD for a service into the CIS, it will be propagated to Darwin and to anything that consumes the data from it.

 

[lachlan]

Given my own personal experiences with Network Rail and disability, and all I've heard from folks on Twitter back when I used that platform, I'd steer well clear from any of their assistance unless I absolutely needed it. You can't assume all disabled passengers are being zipped around in buggies - if they were, there would be no room for anyone to stand!

 

[The exile]

I'd suggest at least 20 minutes before departure would be a good timeframe, because that gives people ample time to get to the platform. if the train is still being cleaned, just keep the doors locked.

ISTR that something exactly like that was part of the Passengers’ Charter back in the day- except it was 15 minutes at termini. The problem is (when comparing with continental systems) that there is so much less slack in the system. Add to that the need to clean because trains are not designed to cope with your average British slob…

 

[Bletchleyite]

This doesn’t seem to worry planners at the other end of the GWR where full London trains arrive in the peak on 13/15 at Temple Meads and disgorge down two narrow staircases just as people are heading for a local departing from the other platform face a few minutes later.

I'm intrigued as to why this nonsense is seen as necessary in just a few locations - almost all of them in London (plus a few others, e.g. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen).

Inverness is one of the worst examples because it was fine as it was - close the platform gates, advertise the platform and people would civilly queue, snaking round the station, and enter via a manual check. The gateline has utterly ruined it.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I'm intrigued as to why this nonsense is seen as necessary in just a few locations - almost all of them in London (plus a few others, e.g. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen).

Inverness is one of the worst examples because it was fine as it was - close the platform gates, advertise the platform and people would civilly queue, snaking round the station, and enter via a manual check. The gateline has utterly ruined it.

In the locations where it is claimed to be an issue, they don't tell departing passengers the platform till the last minute, thus creating a mass surge of people. Whereas elsewhere, it's not an issue as arriving passengers have plenty of time to get to the correct platform and are more staggered in arrival and it's all much, much safer.

 

[kkong]

I'm intrigued as to why this nonsense is seen as necessary in just a few locations - almost all of them in London (plus a few others, e.g. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen).

Inverness is one of the worst examples because it was fine as it was - close the platform gates, advertise the platform and people would civilly queue, snaking round the station, and enter via a manual check. The gateline has utterly ruined it.

There are no such issues in Aberdeen these days.

However, Inverness is just the worst.

Not only the ticket barriers - which they use the control panel to set all to exit only - but they have tensabarriers set up in front of the ticket barriers.

All for the operational convenience of the (usually milling around doing nothing) staff.

 

[gabrielhj07]

It's apparent to everyone that the only stations with this gateline crowding problem are those which deliberately keep platforms a secret under the nonsense guise of 'safety'. There is absolutely no reason to hide platforms once the train is in the platform, and it is safer for everybody to avoid the crush caused by late announcing.

Waterloo is considerably busier than Paddington, and sees none of this because they announce the platforms in good time, usually as the train is pulling into the platform. Can you imagine if the likes of Clapham Junction or Birmingham New Street did this? Both with significantly narrower platforms than Paddington, with more potential for platform overcrowding.

The crush it causes is dreadful for the passenger experience, nevermind safety. It puts the railways on par with airports going from 'please wait' to 'final call' - just no need for it.