PLEASE check my ticket!

[Malton Seadog]

Forgive me if this comes across as a bit of a rant, but I'll do my best to keep my hat on!

I live in Doncaster and commute to York five days a week for work, but I also make the journey on odd weekends for personal visits.

The cost of said monthly pass is £172.10 - which for the record I have to pay out of my own wallet - no help from the company I work for there, I'm afraid!

After the first month of living in Doncaster, it struck me that neither Doncaster or York station had permanent ticket barriers. Indeed, the only times I can think of that there has been a temporary barrier in place was for York Races a week or so ago (three days) and at Doncaster, they do it once in a blue moon.

It also struck me that the conductor on the East Coast train to York (08:08 from Doncaster) hardly EVER checked tickets. The return journey (17:34) CrossCountry journey was slightly more efficient with ticket checks, but still not great.

Before I type the next bit - I do have a life!

Ok - so I thought I'd put a tick or cross next to the date on the calendar based on whether my ticket had been checked or not en route to work. Here are the results.

X=not checked. O=checked.

26/07 XX
27/07 XX
28/07 XO
29/07 XX
30/07 XO
31/07 XX
01/08 XX
02/08 XO
03/08 OO
04/08 OO
05/08 XX
06/08 XO
07/08 OO
09/08 XX
10/08 X
11/08 OX
12/08 XO
13/08 XX
14/08 XO
16/08 XO
17/08 XO
18/08 XX
19/08 XX
20/08 XX
23/08 XX
24/08 XX
25/08 XX
26/08 OX

So there we have it. On the 10th, I only made the journey one way.

28 days.
55 journeys.
16 times where my ticket was checked.

I know the conductor's job isn't based solely around checking tickets, but for crying out loud - are you honestly saying that on SIXTEEN occasions, the CrossCountry conductor couldn't get down a FOUR COACH train in 25 minutes between York and Doncaster?

East Coast have nine coaches to get through - but to be honest, the morning train is hardly ever so busy that there are more than 2-3 people standing between each coach.

I'm an honest person, and I will continue to buy my £172.10 monthly pass - but it doesn't half annoy me.

If I was less honest, I could have got 39 free journeys from Doncaster-York. A standard single is around £10 I believe. £390 on potential lost revenue there...

Makes you think, doesn't it?

 

[GB]

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Makes me think this is just another thread in a long line of recent threads publicly criticising rail staff.:roll:

If it bothers you that much then why not write to the TOC or take your chance and not pay?

This thread may interest you..

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35129

 

[yorkie]

why are you obsessed with ticket checks?

I wonder if law-abiding motorists keep a tally of speed checks and tax disc checks?

if the guard is busy selling excess fares, do you want them to not bother with these transactions so they can get through the entire train?

no sign of the guard for ages indicates he/she is busy selling tickets / excessing / issuing UPGNs etc

 

[southerner2174]

After 2 days of doing the same job over 5 consecutive days i normally get whinged at for doing a full ticket check by the commuters down south, saying 'you checked it yesterday', but there the same people i know would moan that they pay £2000 for their annual season and never get it checked.

Sometimes you just cant win. Just because a ticket check isnt being carried out doesn't mean the guard is being lazy or not doing their job, they could have a faulty machine or no machine at all (not enough machines to cover all jobs), they could be fixing faults and reporting to control, they could be dealing with a disruptive passenger or an ill passenger or helping a passenger out with a query.

 

[moonrakerz]

Makes me think this is just another thread in a long line of recent threads publicly criticising rail staff.:roll:

You aren't Tony Blair behind that Nom de Plume are you ? That was his favourite gambit whenever anyone said anything about the NHS/Education/DVLA - it immediately produced a statement saying that people shouldn't "attack" the hard working nurses/teachers/civil servant - which no one actually was ! But it was a good way to deflect any criticism.

The post wasn't "publicly criticising rail staff" (the post actually started "forgive me" - forgiveness is obviously a bit thin on the ground today) - it was making a perfectly valid point. Checking of rail tickets on board trains IS lax.
WHY the tickets weren't inspected is a totally different matter - lack of staff perhaps ? If more passengers raised this point perhaps the TOCs would do something - it is all too easy for people to adopt a bunker mentality - "everyone's against me" ! Just like that *!#+! who ranted a ramp for his wheelchair..................

 

[GB]

As I said, if you are that bothered then why not raise it with the TOC concerned?

 

[Pacerpilot]

How many times have I left a supermarket and not had my receipt checked? Its never made me think about not paying for my shopping.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Some of the guards round here arent too keen on the ticket checks either. just sat in the back cab of a 150. If you use Virgin Lancaster-Warrington and in between, you get a free journey, NQA!

 

[Max]

I can sympathise with the OP to an extent. I used to commute regularly between Sheffield and Chesterfield and always bought a ticket. But many people thought it was worth risking it. Based on the number of checks, particularly on EMT trains, it probably worked out cheaper to risk the penalty fare than buy a ticket.

 

[Malton Seadog]

A few points if I may:

Makes me think this is just another thread in a long line of recent threads publicly criticising rail staff

If this is true, does that not indicate a problem? If there wasn't anything to criticize, there wouldn't be a "long line of recent threads" would there?

My reason for posting may have been slightly misinterpreted. I will ALWAYS buy a ticket for travel. My concerns is that there are less honest people than me out there who will not purchase a ticket if they become aware of lax conducting.

Incidentally, as an aside, I found it very interesting that one of the gentlemen on the Races ticket barrier at York was checking every male ticket, but as soon as a lady came along wearing not a lot, he let them through with absolutely no attempt to check their tickets!

 

[142094]

I understand where you are coming from, thankfully when I commutted to Leeds the barriers were in operation so stopped the majority without tickets getting past.

However if you think of it in a different way:

1) Barriers cost money to install and staff. If everywhere was barriered, there would of course be less ticketless travel, but I bet ticket prices would increase to cover this cost.

2) If there were extra guards on trains, again this would cost a lot.

Catch 22 situation I'm afraid.

 

[anonymous0101]

I've listened to people who regularly don't pay and would rather risk getting chucked off or getting a Penalty fare or unpaid fares notice. Many of these serial non payers can be conmuters who pretend to be asleep or get aggressive when challenged for a ticket and dealing with them takes forever. Why don't you become a train conductor and see if you can do job better ( and remember you'll be working alone a lot of the time)

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think 16 checks out of 55 is bad really. Bearing in mind York - Donny is generally a very small section of a much longer journey - with a very long train.

 

[MCR247]

with a very long train.

He returns on a voyager

 

[yorksrob]

He returns on a voyager

Ha ha, well maybe not that one then .

I do think that 16 out of 55 is enough to give passengers the impression that there is a good chance that their ticket will be checked.

 

[222007]

Malton Seadog There are often other things going on which you wouldnt see (you can only see the carraige your in). I worked a very busy train a few days back a 3car train FYI and it took me 30 mins to get from back to front to large numbers of people. The next day i worked a train with about 40 people on and it took me the same due to an issue in the rear carraige i guess what im saying is as a passenger doesnt know if theres other issue going on on the train. I respect you for the fact you always have a ticket and that you have no intention of stopping buying it.

 

[b0b]

As always, there is a cost to having tickets checked and I'm sure the TOC balances the factors to have the most profitable outcome...

 

[43167]

I dont see the problem. The service in question is the 1st anglo-scottish service of the day & calls at all stations. So if loads get on then its not surprising if TM doesnt get round.

 

[asylumxl]

I'm looking at your post differently to everyone else, as to me it seems an observation and not a criticism. We do seem to get alot of people on the forum who seem to just criticse the rail industry. There are some staff who give the others a bad image, but the majority are hard working and polite. Like others have said, there are numerous reasons why the guard may not be able to check your ticket.

Also, to add a little perspective, be thank you don't live down south. You pay £172.10 for 32 miles. For a similar distance (Luton to London Thameslink) is £309.60.

 

[scotsman]

Please don't criticise rail staff. You have no idea why your ticket is not being checked. The guard may have been instructed not to check tickets, or they may have had to speak to a manager/inspector or they may have to issue lots of tickets in other parts of the train or they may have had a high incidence of violent or abusive passengers in this area and decided it was in their best interests to keep out the way.

 

[tony_mac]

or they may be reading the paper, or hung over.

 

[scotsman]

or they may be reading the paper, or hung over.

Last time I saw the Guard reading the paper - I was his TTI! (He even bought it specially too)

 

[TEW]

There are guards who just read the paper though, even though they could check tickets.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I am a Guard on the Railway and I am going to stick my head above the parapet here...

Unless the train is so full that I cannot get down I always do my tickets. Despite this however, on busy trains there will always be passengers who do not have their ticket checked, especially if they are travelling a relatively short distance in relation to the overall journey being made by the train.

There are however, in many companies (especially so in one company which operates in my area and I use regularly but isn't mine) Guards which still live in old fashioned times. I believe all trains should have a Guard for safety and security reasons, but this old excuse that "the Guard has lots of safety related things to do", and then using that as an excuse for not doing tickets, is quite frankly nonsense. In the modern Railway with modern signalling systems, modern traction units and an altered rule book, the Guard is just a glorified ticket checker. Revenue is a far more important part of the job than people realise. I know of many folk and have witnessed even more who seem to think their job involves sitting reading the paper in the back cab. In years gone by this may have been ok, but unless some folk realise that they need to get off their backside and do tickets, then they will do a good job of doing themselves - and everyone else - out of a job.

If I can do tickets after every station even at busy times, then why can't other folk? I have heard a myriad of excuses over time but quite frankly none wash. It is essential for both the passengers and colleagues that folk do what they are paid to do - which is check and sell tickets. No matter how much drum banging Bob Crow does DOO will occur in more and more places over the years unless it can clearly be shown that Guards etc are justified. Sitting in the cab reading the paper doesn't do much to help this cause.

Rant over.

 

[jimrbrobinson]

Like the OP, my sense of self-respect and good old-fashioned honesty and decency means I always buy a ticket. I can't recall the last time I made a rail journey where my ticket was not checked. Now, compared to the number of times I've used the Metrolink in and around Manchester and hardly ever had my ticket checked regardless of length of journey. Last time I came back from York to Manchester my ticket was checked twice by the conductor - mainly because I had it out ready anyway - I don't expect the conductor to remember every single face after all!

Completely agree with kwvr's observation - at least trying to look like you're doing something akin to work, rather than having your feet up reading the paper would be a very good idea, especially if the powers-that-be are to be convinced that Guards / Conductors are important from a safety point of view and not an unnecessary expense to be dispensed with.

 

[Flamingo]

I am a Guard on the Railway and I am going to stick my head above the parapet here...

Unless the train is so full that I cannot get down I always do my tickets. Despite this however, on busy trains there will always be passengers who do not have their ticket checked, especially if they are travelling a relatively short distance in relation to the overall journey being made by the train.

There are however, in many companies (especially so in one company which operates in my area and I use regularly but isn't mine) Guards which still live in old fashioned times. I believe all trains should have a Guard for safety and security reasons, but this old excuse that "the Guard has lots of safety related things to do", and then using that as an excuse for not doing tickets, is quite frankly nonsense. In the modern Railway with modern signalling systems, modern traction units and an altered rule book, the Guard is just a glorified ticket checker. Revenue is a far more important part of the job than people realise. I know of many folk and have witnessed even more who seem to think their job involves sitting reading the paper in the back cab. In years gone by this may have been ok, but unless some folk realise that they need to get off their backside and do tickets, then they will do a good job of doing themselves - and everyone else - out of a job.

If I can do tickets after every station even at busy times, then why can't other folk? I have heard a myriad of excuses over time but quite frankly none wash. It is essential for both the passengers and colleagues that folk do what they are paid to do - which is check and sell tickets. No matter how much drum banging Bob Crow does DOO will occur in more and more places over the years unless it can clearly be shown that Guards etc are justified. Sitting in the cab reading the paper doesn't do much to help this cause.

Rant over.

What he said - it's late, and he put it better than I can!

 

[Dreadnought]

I understand where you are coming from, thankfully when I commutted to Leeds the barriers were in operation so stopped the majority without tickets getting past.

However if you think of it in a different way:

1) Barriers cost money to install and staff. If everywhere was barriered, there would of course be less ticketless travel, but I bet ticket prices would increase to cover this cost.

2) If there were extra guards on trains, again this would cost a lot.

Catch 22 situation I'm afraid.

There is another way of looking at this. If ticketless travel is reduced (and the perception that "free" travel is available) then there would be an increase in revenue which would hopefully more than cover the additional costs of staff and/or barriers.

However, before this can be judged to be the right course of action there would need to be an assessment made on how much ticketless travel is being made with the associated "loss" of revenue against the cost of additional ticketing measures to ensure that this would be the case.

 

[142094]

There is another way of looking at this. If ticketless travel is reduced (and the perception that "free" travel is available) then there would be an increase in revenue which would hopefully more than cover the additional costs of staff and/or barriers.

However, before this can be judged to be the right course of action there would need to be an assessment made on how much ticketless travel is being made with the associated "loss" of revenue against the cost of additional ticketing measures to ensure that this would be the case.

A great deal of work would have to be done on this, although you could probably narrow the scope down a little. Many small stations on lines where there are few trains per day and small numbers of passengers could be excluded straightaway. However I bet this would still leave a few thousand stations which are busy enough to warrant the need for barriers. So that would mean a lot of investment in barriers and gates (and maintenance). I have no idea how much it costs to install them, depends on the size of the station. But then you have the additional cost of someone to man the barriers when they are in use, so even if they are getting minimum wage this will add another £10k or so on to the original cost of the barriers, and of course this cost is recurring.

I'd have to do a bit of looking into it but my strong feeling is that money spent on measures to stop ticketless travel would exceed the extra revenue gained from more ticket pruchases. Plus people travelling without a ticket may not necessarily still use the trains - they may simply decide to not travel or go by other means.

 

[route:oxford]

Surely the answer here is to install barriers at Doncaster?

There are various issues at York with heritage and access, but (from memory) Doncaster isn't quite so problematic.

I used to work in York and would find it easier and quicker to drive to Doncaster from Oxford and grab the train up to York than to drive all the way to York.

 

[Malton Seadog]

Agreed re: Doncaster.

There's only one entrance to all platforms under the subway - would make installing barriers extremely cost efficient. Unfortunately, it'd be quite claustrophobic under there at rush hour.