Please help; fine escalated to prosecution

[Odeon]

My partner and I were both issued a fine of £20 on 3rd of June for travelling without a ticket for two stations journey to get to work. We have tried to pay the fine online multiple times within the time allowed but the online services weren't working. We have tried to do it on our phones and laptop and it kept giving us the same message ( I have screenshots of the errors that appear)

We have also tried to contact ITL on numerous occasions - by filling out the online form, by letter and by leaving our phone number to be called back and we have received no reply.

We called to pay 1 day after the allowed period. (Left it very last minute) When my partner called up to pay her fine after giving up on using the online services she paid her £20. A few seconds later we rung from her phone again to pay mine and there was £35 charge added on to that... I appreciate there are rules as when we rung it was 1 day after the period allowed but the rules should be applied the same way. I wanted to appeal the added charge of £35, so when we finally managed to find the number where you can speak to a person we called the ITL services and we were told to email all the information and screenshots to the customer services email in order to appeal. We did that and received an automated email that we will receive a response in 15 working days. After having no response in 24 working days I emailed them asking what’s the progress on my appeal because I was getting worried. After 6 days I received an email back saying that “the penalty fine is paid and marked as completed”. I still emailed for them to send me another confirmation but have received no answer. I assumed it was resolved?.. Then on 9th of October I have received a letter in the post that I need to go to court for prosecution..

I haven't ever been given a penalty fine ever before as I either pay for my ticket or walk to work. This is the first time this has happened to me and I thought I was in the progress of appealing then I get an email saying it’s been marked completed and then I receive a letter that I need to go to court and that I will be charged?

No amount of fine is worth a CCJ on my record and credit. I wanted to appeal the extra charges added as the appeal services have been made available, so I was simply using them.

I have all the correspondence via email and the one reply from the IRCAS officer confirming the fine being marked as “completed”?
Do I have any chance by pleasing “not guilty” and going to court?
I just want to avoid any ccj on my record.....

Many Thanks

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

My partner and I were both issued a fine of £20 on 3rd of June for travelling without a ticket for two stations journey to get to work. We have tried to pay the fine online multiple times within the time allowed but the online services weren't working. We have tried to do it on our phones and laptop and it kept giving us the same message ( I have screenshots of the errors that appear)

We have also tried to contact ITL on numerous occasions - by filling out the online form, by letter and by leaving our phone number to be called back and we have received no reply.

We called to pay 1 day after the allowed period. (Left it very last minute) When my partner called up to pay her fine after giving up on using the online services she paid her £20. A few seconds later we rung from her phone again to pay mine and there was £35 charge added on to that... I appreciate there are rules as when we rung it was 1 day after the period allowed but the rules should be applied the same way. I wanted to appeal the added charge of £35, so when we finally managed to find the number where you can speak to a person we called the ITL services and we were told to email all the information and screenshots to the customer services email in order to appeal. We did that and received an automated email that we will receive a response in 15 working days. After having no response in 24 working days I emailed them asking what’s the progress on my appeal because I was getting worried. After 6 days I received an email back saying that “the penalty fine is paid and marked as completed”. I still emailed for them to send me another confirmation but have received no answer. I assumed it was resolved?.. Then on 9th of October I have received a letter in the post that I need to go to court for prosecution..

I haven't ever been given a penalty fine ever before as I either pay for my ticket or walk to work. This is the first time this has happened to me and I thought I was in the progress of appealing then I get an email saying it’s been marked completed and then I receive a letter that I need to go to court and that I will be charged?

No amount of fine is worth a CCJ on my record and credit. I wanted to appeal the extra charges added as the appeal services have been made available, so I was simply using them.

I have all the correspondence via email and the one reply from the IRCAS officer confirming the fine being marked as “completed”?
Do I have any chance by pleasing “not guilty” and going to court?
I just want to avoid any ccj on my record.....

Many Thanks

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly, a Penalty Fare is quite distinct from an actual fine. Only a Criminal Court has the power to impose a fine; a Penalty Fare is merely a civil penalty one. A fine is a criminal matter.

For us to advise you further, it would be useful if you could answer some of the following questions:

1. Did the station you boarded at have facilities to buy a ticket at the time and on the date you boarded there? For example, if you wanted to pay by cash and there was either a card-only ticket machine or a ticket office, was the ticket office open?
2. Did you have the means to pay the fare with you (i.e. card/cash etc.)?
3. Did you give your correct name and address, and boarding station, when asked?
4. Did a member of train crew (e.g. a conductor) come through the train, and if so, did you try to buy a ticket from them?
5. Did you approach a member of the train company's staff to pay your fare when exiting at your destination (or had you already been issued with the Penalty Fare earlier in your journey)?
6. Does your bank statement show that you have paid the Penalty Fare, and do you have any kind of email or other confirmation showing that you have paid the Penalty Fare?
7. What exactly does the letter that you received on the 9th of October say? Does it merely threaten prosecution, or is it an actual Court summons (giving a date on which you must attend Court)? Does it mention a specific Act or Byelaw (for example, perhaps Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, or Byelaw 18 of the Railway Byelaws 2005)?

Whether or not you have any grounds on which to appeal the matter, or plead 'not guilty', will depend very much on the circumstances. In either case, a criminal prosecution cannot result in a County Court Judgment, as train company prosecutions are almost invariably undertaken at a Magistrates' Court. A conviction there does not come onto your credit file. However, depending on the legislation under which you have a conviction, it may still affect your ability to obtain certain financial services, in particular insurance, for up to 1 year from conviction (this would be known as a 'recordable' conviction that is 'unspent' for 1 year).

You would need to declare an unspent recordable conviction if asked to do so for a job application etc. - but in most cases, if there is no special vetting etc. required, it need not be an absolute impediment on employment.

Hopefully you can get back to us with some more details on your situation and then we can advise you further.

 

[najaB]

For us to advise you further, it would be useful if you could answer some of the following questions:

To my mind, at this stage #6 and #7 are the most important - depending on those the answers to #1 to #5 may not matter.

 

[Odeon]

Hello,

The station had ticket machines but they weren’t working so when we saw the train approaching we just jumped on it as we were late for work. On the train we couldn’t find a conductor to buy a ticket from. (it was a short two stops journey for 8minutes exactly) When we got off the train there were train officers straight away checking tickets. I have correct information. The address on my ID was my old address so the woman wrote my new address on the back of the paper stating “new address”.
The letter I received it’s an actual summon quoting “single justice prosecution notice” and they are giving me the option to please guily or not guilty within 21 days and if I don’t they will assume I’m guilty and proceeed with the decision making. I didn’t pay the penalty fare because I wanted to dispute/appeal the additional charges of £35 on top of the original £20. I spoke to them on the phone and they advised me to email all the information over to the email they provided me with so I can appeal therefore I thought I was in the proceedings of appeal. They didn’t respond to my email for 24 working days which worried me so I chased it up and then an officer from IRCAS (that’s how the email was signed) emailed sayin that the penalty fare is marked as “completed” so I thought I didn’t have to do anything more. After that I received the letter for the court... the only correspondence I received from them via post was the original one saying that I have a penalty fine of £20 when it was issued and then the second one was the court summon and it was all send over to my old address even though you can see clearly that the woman that issued the fine clearly has written “new address” on the side ... if the person that lives at my old adresss never delivered the mail I wouldn’t even have known I need to go to court?!

Also, in the summons says if I am found guilty or plead guilty i will have a criminal record? I’m trying to buy a house I’ve been saving up for years now with my partner so my worry is that all of this if it goes to court and I’m found guilty will go to onto my credit score. Is that correct?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hello,

The station had ticket machines but they weren’t working so when we saw the train approaching we just jumped on it as we were late for work. On the train we couldn’t find a conductor to buy a ticket from. (it was a short two stops journey for 8minutes exactly) When we got off the train there were train officers straight away checking tickets. I have correct information. The address on my ID was my old address so the woman wrote my new address on the back of the paper stating “new address”.
The letter I received it’s an actual summon quoting “single justice prosecution notice” and they are giving me the option to please guily or not guilty within 21 days and if I don’t they will assume I’m guilty and proceeed with the decision making. I didn’t pay the penalty fare because I wanted to dispute/appeal the additional charges of £35 on top of the original £20. I spoke to them on the phone and they advised me to email all the information over to the email they provided me with so I can appeal therefore I thought I was in the proceedings of appeal. They didn’t respond to my email for 24 working days which worried me so I chased it up and then an officer from IRCAS (that’s how the email was signed) emailed sayin that the penalty fare is marked as “completed” so I thought I didn’t have to do anything more. After that I received the letter for the court... the only correspondence I received from them via post was the original one saying that I have a penalty fine of £20 when it was issued and then the second one was the court summon and it was all send over to my old address even though you can see clearly that the woman that issued the fine clearly has written “new address” on the side ... if the person that lives at my old adresss never delivered the mail I wouldn’t even have known I need to go to court?!

Also, in the summons says if I am found guilty or plead guilty i will have a criminal record? I’m trying to buy a house I’ve been saving up for years now with my partner so my worry is that all of this if it goes to court and I’m found guilty will go to onto my credit score. Is that correct?

Thanks for that.

Does the station you boarded at have a ticket office, and if so, was it open at the time you boarded?

Does your bank/card statement show that you have paid the Penalty Fare?

What offence or Act does the Single Justice Prosecution notice refer to? (Perhaps you could upload a copy, suitably redacted of your name/address, as well as the dates and the name of the Court which issued it).

The business about your old and new addresses is rather unfortunate, but ultimately you have to deal with the facts of the matter as they are now. If a mistake was made, that is quite possibly not your fault; that does not mean that the prosecution will fail on that basis!

And whether or not you receive a criminal record will depend on the offence for which you are prosecuted. If you are prosecuted under Byelaw 18 of the Railway Byelaws 2005, you would not receive a criminal record. If you were prosecuted under Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, you would indeed have a criminal record, but this would be "spent" after one year. In either case, as per my original reply, this is a criminal matter and not a civil one, so there is no impact on your credit file (as a County Court Judgment would only come from action in the civil - i.e. County - Court). Nevertheless, some lenders may be unwilling to lend to an applicant with an unspent conviction.

 

[Puffing Devil]

To my mind, at this stage #6 and #7 are the most important - depending on those the answers to #1 to #5 may not matter.

Exactly.

The key issue here is that a summons has been issued, the rest has little bearing at the moment.

As I understand it, and the posting is quite dense, this is the following sequence of events, and number 7 is the most important as you have a live court case.

1) You boarded without a ticket and were given a penalty fare by an RPI when you arrived at your destination. This was both you and your partner.

2) Your partner has managed to pay the £20 and the matter is closed.

3) You attempted to pay the £20 online many times and have screen captures to show that the process failed.

4) You eventually called after the deadline to pay and a later payment charge of £35 had been added that you wished to dispute.

5) You were advised by ITL to email in the details of the problems in payment. You did that and received an automated email that would receive a response in 15 working days.

6) After 24 working days, you had no response and you emailed to check the status of your appeal

7) 6 days later you received an email back saying that “the penalty fine is paid and marked as completed”

8) You sent a further email asking for another confirmation and didn't get a reply

9) On the 9th of October, you receive a written charge and a notice to say that the matter has gone to court and will be processed under the single justice procedure.

If you have been told that the matter is settled, you have a reasonable expectation that you will not be prosecuted. We need to be sure that this expectation is correct, so please let me have a little more detail on the following points, numbers relate to the chronology above.

3) Do the screenshots show a failure of the payment system, or a failure of your card to be accepted?

4) Why did you not call before the payment deadline?

7) Did the email you receive form part of a chain/exchange and clearly show the reference for your penalty, not your partners?

8) If you were sure of (7) why did you send a further email?

9) Please confirm that the letter you have is a Requisition from the court.

 

[reb0118]

"7) 6 days later you received an email back saying that “the penalty fine is paid and marked as completed”

7) Did the email you receive form part of a chain/exchange and clearly show the reference for your penalty, not your partners?"

The above from @Puffing Devil is pertinent. I may be wrong but this could be the root of the erroneous belief that your penalty fare was resolved.

The advice remains. Pay first: appeal later.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I didn’t pay the penalty fare because I wanted to dispute/appeal the additional charges of £35 on top of the original £20

Easy to miss in a long post, but you're saying you were advised of the additional charge and decided not to pay at that point pending an appeal process? So you haven't paid your penalty fare, only your partner's?