Please help - likelihood of going to court— QUICK UPDATE.

[Haz191]

Hi everyone, I’ll try and keep it short and brief but detailed.

I was travelling home via Eastleigh - farnborough main, there was no where to get a ticket at the station and I usually get one on the train, however there was no guard giving out tickets and I couldn’t find one when looking, so at my first opportunity I asked at the barriers at farnborough main if I could buy a ticket from Eastleigh to farnborough main, they refused and insisted I had to have a prosecution, I even offered to pay the fee + a fine but they insisted on taking this route.

I was told I have to wait up to 6 months, but my anxiety is killing me already. What’s the likelihood I get out through court and given a criminal record ?

I’m also worried as about a month ago I got fined for accidentally setting the return date on my ticket for the next day instead of same day travel and I’m worried that will constitute as a “repeated offence”

Hopefully that all makes sense and I’m eager to hear people’s thoughts.

Many thanks,
Harry.

 

[Watershed]

Hi everyone, I’ll try and keep it short and brief but detailed.

I was travelling home via Eastleigh - farnborough main, there was no where to get a ticket at the station and I usually get one on the train, however there was no guard giving out tickets and I couldn’t find one when looking, so at my first opportunity I asked at the barriers at farnborough main if I could buy a ticket from Eastleigh to farnborough main, they refused and insisted I had to have a prosecution, I even offered to pay the fee + a fine but they insisted on taking this route.

I was told I have to wait up to 6 months, but my anxiety is killing me already. What’s the likelihood I get out through court and given a criminal record ?

I’m also worried as about a month ago I got fined for accidentally setting the return date on my ticket for the next day instead of same day travel and I’m worried that will constitute as a “repeated offence”

Hopefully that all makes sense and I’m eager to hear people’s thoughts.

Many thanks,
Harry.

You say there was no way of buying a ticket at Eastleigh - what method of payment were you intending to use? Would this not have been accepted by the ticket machines? And if so, were you travelling at a time of day when the ticket office was shut?

All SWR services have guards, and in my experience they are usually pretty good about announcing where in the train they are. In any event they step onto the platform at every station. Whilst the mere act of boarding a train without a ticket is already an offence (if you had the opportunity to buy one before boarding) you probably could have avoided the problems at Farnborough by finding the guard and buying a ticket from them.

You could also have bought an e-ticket on one of the many apps/websites out there, whilst on your way to the station. Obviously that's by-the-by for this incident, but perhaps still useful for future reference.

When you say you were "fined" a month ago, what exactly do you mean by this? Were you issued with a Penalty Fare (£20 or twice the fare)? If so, did you give your details for this, or did you pay it on the spot?

 

[skyhigh]

there was no where to get a ticket at the station

Why couldn't you use the ticket machines at the station?

 

[Hadders]

You said your journey was 'via Eastleigh - Farnborough Main'. Did you start your journey at Eastleigh (where there are ticket machines) or did you start elsewhere and simply change trains at Eastleigh? You must have a ticket when you board a train unless there are no facilities to purchase one. A ticket machine is a facility to purchase a ticket and you should have used it wouldn't sell the exact ticket you required, or it didn't acceot your chosen method of payment.

What will happen next os that you will receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive and can be sooner but shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

A complication in your case is that you have come to the train company's attention before. That might make obtaining an out of court settlement harder, and it might end up costing more. Were your details taken on the previous occasion. Did you pay a Penalty Fare, and was this paid at the time or did you pay an out of court settlement following a letter from the train company?

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal detais redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread I'm sure forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Haz191]

All SWR services have guards, and in my experience they are usually pretty good about announcing where in the train they are. In any event they step onto the platform at every station. Whilst the mere act of boarding a train without a ticket is already an offence (if you had the opportunity to buy one before boarding) you probably could have avoided the problems at Farnborough by finding the guard and buying a ticket from them.

You could also have bought an e-ticket on one of the many apps/websites out there, whilst on your way to the station. Obviously that's by-the-by for this incident, but perhaps still useful for future reference.

When you say you were "fined" a month ago, what exactly do you mean by this? Were you issued with a Penalty Fare (£20 or twice the fare)? If so, did you give your details for this, or did you pay it on the spot?

You say there was no way of buying a ticket at Eastleigh - what method of payment were you intending to use? Would this not have been accepted by the ticket machines? And if so, were you travelling at a time of day when the ticket office was shut?

All SWR services have guards, and in my experience they are usually pretty good about announcing where in the train they are. In any event they step onto the platform at every station. Whilst the mere act of boarding a train without a ticket is already an offence (if you had the opportunity to buy one before boarding) you probably could have avoided the problems at Farnborough by finding the guard and buying a ticket from them.

You could also have bought an e-ticket on one of the many apps/websites out there, whilst on your way to the station. Obviously that's by-the-by for this incident, but perhaps still useful for future reference.

When you say you were "fined" a month ago, what exactly do you mean by this? Were you issued with a Penalty Fare (£20 or twice the fare)? If so, did you give your details for this, or did you pay it on the spot?

I was attended to use Apple Pay, I don’t normally use Eastleigh I normally use a few stops down at a bigger station. I was running late for the train so maybe I didn’t see the ticket machines but that’s a stupid mistake on me.

Using an app the get the ticket whilst running for the train didn’t come to my attention as I had a plan in my head and didn’t really think about it, plus I have limited data and not sure if I have any left.

When I was fined he took my details and told me to pay through a link on the ticket which I did straight away. Was about £45.

Why couldn't you use the ticket machines at the station?

I normally use the main station a few stops down but found my self in Eastleigh today as I met with a friend who dropped me at the station - was running late cause of traffic and didn’t see the ticket machine and don’t think I had time to get it anyway.

You said your journey was 'via Eastleigh - Farnborough Main'. Did you start your journey at Eastleigh (where there are ticket machines) or did you start elsewhere and simply change trains at Eastleigh? You must have a ticket when you board a train unless there are no facilities to purchase one. A ticket machine is a facility to purchase a ticket and you should have used it wouldn't sell the exact ticket you required, or it didn't acceot your chosen method of payment.

What will happen next os that you will receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive and can be sooner but shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

A complication in your case is that you have come to the train company's attention before. That might make obtaining an out of court settlement harder, and it might end up costing more. Were your details taken on the previous occasion. Did you pay a Penalty Fare, and was this paid at the time or did you pay an out of court settlement following a letter from the train company?

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal detais redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread I'm sure forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thank you very much for the detailed reply . I did pay that fine straight away on the link I was given on the ticket.

I really hope this doesn’t get taken to court as I am 21 and it will massively effect my job prospects.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not quite sure what journey the OP has made exactly, a big(ger) station via Eastleigh to Farnborough Main, might well be a journey originating from Southampton Central.

An anytime day single from Southampton Central to Farnborough Stns is £22.40 (from Eastleigh it's £22.20), twice this, either way, is almost £45, so it could well be that the OP has essentially been penalty fared, which if settled in full, should be the end of the matter if the OP doesn't come to the attention again of the railway on a future occasion.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not quite sure what journey the OP has made exactly, a big(ger) station via Eastleigh to Farnborough Main, might well be a journey originating from Southampton Central.

An anytime day single from Southampton Central to Farnborough Stns is £22.40 (from Eastleigh it's £22.20), twice this, either way, is almost £45, so it could well be that the OP has essentially been penalty fared, which if settled in full, should be the end of the matter if the OP doesn't come to the attention again of the railway on a future occasion.

Isn't the OP saying they were PF'd this amount recently, and has now committed a further indiscretion today?

 

[Haywain]

Not quite sure what journey the OP has made exactly, a big(ger) station via Eastleigh to Farnborough Main, might well be a journey originating from Southampton Central.

An anytime day single from Southampton Central to Farnborough Stns is £22.40 (from Eastleigh it's £22.20), twice this, either way, is almost £45, so it could well be that the OP has essentially been penalty fared, which if settled in full, should be the end of the matter if the OP doesn't come to the attention again of the railway on a future occasion.

The OP has stated that the journey was from Eastleigh to Farnborough Main and they have been reported for prosecution.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The OP has stated that the journey was from Eastleigh to Farnborough Main and they have been reported for prosecution.

Thanks for clarifying. As this latest incident effectively makes this a subsequent offence, the railway may well consider the OP to be a "repeat offender". Is @Hadders' advice about the OP writing to the investigation team saying (inter alia) that they have "learnt from the experience" still appropriate to state in any relevant correspondence?

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for clarifying. As this latest incident effectively makes this a subsequent offence, the railway may well consider the OP to be a "repeat offender". Is @Hadders' advice about the OP writing to the investigation team saying (inter alia) that they have "learnt from the experience" still appropriate to state in any relevant correspondence?

It depends on exactly what questions the letter that gets sent asks. Also bear in mind that if a Penalty Fare was issued in the previous case it is not a fine, and not an accusation of avoiding or attempting to avoid paying their fare.

 

[Haz191]

It depends on exactly what questions the letter that gets sent asks. Also bear in mind that if a Penalty Fare was issued in the previous case it is not a fine, and not an accusation of avoiding or attempting to avoid paying their fare.

I’m not sure what the term was as this one was a month ago, but the guy gave me a ticket and I had to give my details and pay the train fare plus a small fine online via a link on the ticket. So not sure now if the railway will think I’m a repeat offender.

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m not sure what the term was as this one was a month ago, but the guy gave me a ticket and I had to give my details and pay the train fare plus a small fine online via a link on the ticket. So not sure now if the railway will think I’m a repeat offender.

more than 1 or 2 fares irregularities in a relatively short space of time (eg 6 months) would probably be enough for the railway to consider it 'repeat offending' I fear. Even if those are 'genuine mistakes' in the eyes of the passenger.

 

[Haz191]

more than 1 or 2 fares irregularities in a relatively short space of time (eg 6 months) would probably be enough for the railway to consider it 'repeat offending' I fear. Even if those are 'genuine mistakes' in the eyes of the passenger.

Yeah that’s what I’m worried will happen.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

If you had limited data, wouldn't you have connected to the SWR WiFi anyway. It can be a bit flakey but should be good enough.

 

[Haz191]

If you had limited data, wouldn't you have connected to the SWR WiFi anyway. It can be a bit flakey but should be good enough.

I normally connect automatically, and when I don’t it never works for me. I didn’t connect automatically this time either. But I’m just going to wait for the letter and hope for the best. It was a stupid mistake on me and can only learn on my mistakes, I’m 21 and only being travelling by train for roughly 2 months, so not completely inexperienced but still stupid enough to make mistakes. I appreciate everyone’s replies and I’ll update the thread once I get a letter

 

[RPI]

SWR are generally quite pragmatic with settling out of court, if you were reported for prosecution then you will receive a letter with a reference number and settlement amount, you can then pay the amount online generally.

 

[Haz191]

QUICK UPDATE:

Received the letter and got an option to settle out of court so I’ve done that and issue is resolved !

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[HSP 2]

Just for my own knowledge, in the first post the OP mentions the following,

I’m also worried as about a month ago I got fined for accidentally setting the return date on my ticket for the next day instead of same day travel and I’m worried that will constitute as a “repeated offence”

The part that I can't understand is why would he be PF for setting the return date a day ahead (the next day)? As he could not reuse the ticket as the outward portion would then have the wrong date (the day before).

If this is in the wrong place, would it be possible to move it.

HSP 2

PS, surely the ticket should just have been endorsed as used, job done.

 

[jamiearmley]

Just for my own knowledge, in the first post the OP mentions the following,

The part that I can't understand is why would he be PF for setting the return date a day ahead (the next day)? As he could not reuse the ticket as the outward portion would then have the wrong date (the day before).

If this is in the wrong place, would it be possible to move it.

HSP 2

When this happens, two singles are bought, usually advance singles.

As such, no ticket was held for the return part of the journey on that day, and so a PF was issued.

**
UNRELATED to the OP, but interesting nevertheless:
It's quite common, since the advent of mobile ticketing, to find people who have bought a normal single, such as a cheap day, in one direction for today and the other direction for tomorrow. They then travel both ways on both days claiming a mistake.