Poirot, The Plymouth Express

[STEVIEBOY1]

I was watching an old episode of Poirot with David Suchet a few days ago, "The Plymouth Express" which was supposed to have been on a train from Paddington to Bristol & onwards, set in the 1920s / 1930s?. I don't know if anyone else spotted this, but I think it should have been "Chocolate and Cream" livery on the rolling stock, possibly Hawksworth and GWR Livery on the the stations, however the carriages, looked to be either Mark one, or SR Maunsell stock and the stations looked like some of those either on the Bluebell or Mid Hants lines. Anyway it was a good film and the trains scenes were still fine.

 

[Gloster]

I think it was made in the London Weekend Television era, so they were likely to use a line close to London (or for their chosen production company to do so). The Bluebell in particular was and is well organised for gaining extra revenue by catering to film and TV companies.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Apparently the suggestion of the Bluebell Railway appears to be correct, but I was surprised when I read that the large terminus scenes purporting to be Paddington, Bristol & Plymouth were actually shot at Hull Paragon Station.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Apparently the suggestion of the Bluebell Railway appears to be correct, but I was surprised when I read that the large terminus scenes purporting to be Paddington, Bristol & Plymouth were actually shot at Hull Paragon Station.

Yes, I thought it was the Bluebell, as said above, they do feature in a lot of TV & Films, no doubt good for their revenues.

I was wondering where the terminus shots were filmed, Hull makes sense, it is quite scenic and perhaps not so busy as other hubs so lends itself well for that sort of thing.

 

[yorksrob]

I watched this a year or so ago and noticed Hull Paragon - this is used in quite a few Poirot episodes.

The benefits are:

- grand old train shed
- not too busy for filming
- Poirot can be filmed walking straight from the hotel to the concourse.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I watched this a year or so ago and noticed Hull Paragon - this is used in quite a few Poirot episodes.

The benefits are:

- grand old train shed
- not too busy for filming
- Poirot can be filmed walking straight from the hotel to the concourse.

Yes, indeed.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Yes, I thought it was the Bluebell, as said above, they do feature in a lot of TV & Films, no doubt good for their revenues.

I was wondering where the terminus shots were filmed, Hull makes sense, it is quite scenic and perhaps not so busy as other hubs so lends itself well for that sort of thing.

I watched this a year or so ago and noticed Hull Paragon - this is used in quite a few Poirot episodes.

The benefits are:

- grand old train shed
- not too busy for filming
- Poirot can be filmed walking straight from the hotel to the concourse.

If I’m honest, I’d never have guessed that was Hull Paragon as its a station that I’ve never yet managed to visit, I did expect it could be Marylebone at first but some things didn’t look quite right for that particular location. Must admit Paragon really does appear to retain a lot of its former grandeur though when looking at modern day photos.

 

[4SubAsociation]

4SUB 4732 and 2BIL 2090 was used in a Piorot Epsiode too.

It was used in the episode The Kidnapped Prime Minister at Dover Western Docks. I have seen the episode and it within the 1st 3mins. Oddly the car pulls up to the 4SUB then suddenly the camera angle changes to the 2BIL with the actor entering the BIL (i have watched too many greatest movies mistakes).

Here is a picture of the SUB at the Western docks. (we have requested a copy of the photo). C J Marsden has a pic with the 2bil in the other platform, it was published in the Modern Preserved Electric locos and multiple units book

4SUB Dover Western Docks Nov 1989

4SUB Southern Region EMU on a visit to Dover Western Docks Station in November 1989.

www.flickr.com

 

[Gloster]

In addition to the anachronistic types of trains, the story takes place in 1918 or 1919, well before the Southern, even though it wasn’t published until 1923. Just be thankful that they didn’t reckon that a train of BR maroon coaches with a Standard on the front would look ‘old enough’.

 

[asdirective]

In addition to the anachronistic types of trains, the story takes place in 1918 or 1919, well before the Southern, even though it wasn’t published until 1923. Just be thankful that they didn’t reckon that a train of BR maroon coaches with a Standard on the front would look ‘old enough’.

The Poirot books were set over a large time period. The TV series moved most of the storylines, so they were all set in the 1930s pre war period. This allowed for consistency when filming the series, rather than having to keep using different time periods. So the Southern railway is rightly used, even though the original book's date would pre date this.

 

[Gloster]

The Poirot books were set over a large time period. The TV series moved most of the storylines, so they were all set in the 1930s pre war period. This allowed for consistency when filming the series, rather than having to keep using different time periods. So the Southern railway is rightly used, even though the original book's date would pre date this.

I haven’t seen the episode, but the book is very specifically set at the time of a conference at the end of The Great War. So unless they have made a series of awkward changes to the plot, there is going to be an anachronism.

Poirot’s adventures were spread over many years, nearer sixty than fifty, I think, and that ignores a couple of retellings of earlier cases. Although many of them could be moved forward or backward without too much trouble, The Kidnapped Prime Minister would not be so easy. Poirot is reckoned to have been about 120 in the last book. I note that, for whatever reason, the chauffeur’s name has been changed to Egan from (I think) O’Murphy.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

4SUB 4732 and 2BIL 2090 was used in a Piorot Epsiode too.

It was used in the episode The Kidnapped Prime Minister at Dover Western Docks. I have seen the episode and it within the 1st 3mins. Oddly the car pulls up to the 4SUB then suddenly the camera angle changes to the 2BIL with the actor entering the BIL (i have watched too many greatest movies mistakes).

Here is a picture of the SUB at the Western docks. (we have requested a copy of the photo). C J Marsden has a pic with the 2bil in the other platform, it was published in the Modern Preserved Electric locos and multiple units book

4SUB Dover Western Docks Nov 1989

4SUB Southern Region EMU on a visit to Dover Western Docks Station in November 1989.

www.flickr.com

Thanks for that, good photo, I shall have to find that episode too and watch it.

 

[Calthrop]

Poirot’s adventures were spread over many years, nearer sixty than fifty, I think, and that ignores a couple of retellings of earlier cases. Although many of them could be moved forward or backward without too much trouble, The Kidnapped Prime Minister would not be so easy. Poirot is reckoned to have been about 120 in the last book. I note that, for whatever reason, the chauffeur’s name has been changed to Egan from (I think) O’Murphy.

Have never -- that I can remember -- read any of the books involving Poirot; and film and TV are largely "unknown country" for me. Do any Poirot episodes take place in his native Belgium? If so -- that would pose a railway-scenes challenge for film makers ...

 

[Gloster]

Have never -- that I can remember -- read any of the books involving Poirot; and film and TV are largely "unknown country" for me. Do any Poirot episodes take place in his native Belgium? If so -- that would pose a railway-scenes challenge for film makers ...

Working from memory, I can only think of one short story set in Belgium: this was a case of Poirot telling the story of a case that occurred in his younger days. There may have been others or parts of stories that took place there, but Poirot’s cases took place in the milieux that Christie’s hoped-for readership would know or be interested in. Belgium had, no doubt, many fine qualities, but it was hardly an object of fascination or familiarity to most mid-twentieth century Britons.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Yes, in the TV series there was a flashback scene with HP as a young policeman in Brussels and the lost love of his life, but nothing of railway (or tram) interest. The obvious 'outside of Britain one' was 'Murder on the Orient Express' - but the 1974 film was largely filmed in the studio using real interiors from butchered Wagon-Lits cars. There are opening shots of HP, however, at Haydarpasa station in Istanbul (having arrived by train from Syria) and crossing to the European side by steamer. 'Appointment with Death' was also set in Syria (and Jerusalem), to which HP travelled by train, but no railway action in the TV episode.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Have never -- that I can remember -- read any of the books involving Poirot; and film and TV are largely "unknown country" for me. Do any Poirot episodes take place in his native Belgium? If so -- that would pose a railway-scenes challenge for film makers ...

There was one episode, later in the David Suchet series, that was set for a little bit in Belgium, I can not remember the exact title, but chocolates were involved. They showed an arrival outside a railway station that they just called "Gare De Brussels".

 

[Dr Hoo]

There was one episode, later in the David Suchet series, that was set for a little bit in Belgium, I can not remember the exact title, but chocolates were involved. They showed an arrival outside a railway station that they just called "Gare De Brussels".

I think that it was called 'The Chocolate Box'. It has 'Antwerp Central' as 'Brussels' and does have some preserved trams in it ISTR.

Incidentally, the old booking hall at Hull Paragon in 'The Plymouth Express' was also used as an implied London Victoria as a suspect was arrested as he attempted to catch the "boat train" from London, en route to France. (Yes, I know that 'other potential stations were available'.)

 

[Gloster]

The short story, which has had several titles, was called The Chocolate Box. I think the original had Poirot telling the story to Hastings (?), but the TV version seems to involve Poirot and Japp going to Brussels.

EDIT: The story first appeared in 1923.

 

[Calthrop]

Thanks, everyone. So, re what little there was -- a certain amount of effort was made.

Working from memory, I can only think of one short story set in Belgium: this was a case of Poirot telling the story of a case that occurred in his younger days. There may have been others or parts of stories that took place there, but Poirot’s cases took place in the milieux that Christie’s hoped-for readership would know or be interested in.
Belgium had, no doubt, many fine qualities, but it was hardly an object of fascination or familiarity to most mid-twentieth century Britons.

Even though British World War I propaganda -- for purposes of recruiting, and for getting public opinion on side -- waxed passionate about "gallant little Belgium" being ill-used by the Hun, and the necessity of coming to its defence; it seems that this didn't kindle in many people, an interest in the place for its own sake. One reckons that people tend to be like this -- pretty conservative and incurious ! (My several visits to Belgium -- while not making it my favourite Continental country -- have given rise to my opinion that it possesses plenty of charm and interest.)

Having consulted Wiki re Poirot, I find that the "narrative" about him per Agatha Christie, involves his coming to Britain as a World War I refugee; and has him subsequently -- for the author's reasons as per @Gloster, above -- based in Britain.

 

[Gloster]

Having consulted Wiki re Poirot, I find that the "narrative" about him per Agatha Christie, involves his coming to Britain as a World War I refugee; and has him subsequently -- for the author's reasons as per @Gloster, above -- based in Britain.

The Mysterious Affair at Styles was Christie’s first book; it was written (I think) while she was working as a hospital pharmacist in 1916, but not published until 1920. Poirot is a refugee in the Essex (?) village near Styles. Hastings and Japp has met Poirot in Belgium before the war: Hastings being an admirer of Poirot from his first encounter.

 

[Calthrop]

If Poirot had been a real person; I can't help feeling (whilst plenty of people are -- though their consciences may trouble them over it -- not natural heroes, and one understands same): that he could have made excellent use of his talents and wiles, by staying in Belgium and joining the Resistance -- he'd have baffled, deceived, and run rings round the Germans at every turn. However, that wasn't Agatha C.'s kind of fiction; so she did what she did, with the guy. Perhaps on some alternative-history scene, the alternative Christie might have written about Poirot as a Scarlet Pimpernel figure rather than a detective; and enjoyed equal success, to how it was herewith in "our time-line".

 

[Gloster]

If Poirot had been a real person; I can't help feeling (whilst plenty of people are -- though their consciences may trouble them over it -- not natural heroes, and one understands same): that he could have made excellent use of his talents and wiles, by staying in Belgium and joining the Resistance -- he'd have baffled, deceived, and run rings round the Germans at every turn. However, that wasn't Agatha C.'s kind of fiction; so she did what she did, with the guy. Perhaps on some alternative-history scene, the alternative Christie might have written about Poirot as a Scarlet Pimpernel figure rather than a detective; and enjoyed equal success, to how it was herewith in "our time-line".

In a book on Poirot that I dug out it does say that Poirot had been involved in the opposition to the Germans, but his position had become unsafe and he had to leave. The book is a mixture of biography and history of the series, not a ‘based on an idea by’ or prequel/continuation one. It is not clear whether the information is a result of detailed examination of the text, which has obviously taken place, or been added to tie up loose ends.

 

[johnnychips]

Did the series make up stories that weren’t based on books or short stories by Christie? The Plymouth Express certainly wasn’t a Christie book, but the 4.50 from Paddington was, so perhaps it was based on that. In the book - spoiler alert - a woman sees a murder when two trains are running parallel to each other in the window of an adjacent train. Was that the plot of The Plymouth Express? Never watched the series, not because I feared it would compromise the author’s intentions, but it clashed with Quiz League in the pub.

EDIT: I have just remembered that 4.50 from Paddington was Miss Marple, so did they transform detectives? Oops.

Miss Marple solved the crime, in one way, by consulting her nephew - I think - who knew a lot about trains. Today she’d be asking in the ‘Allocations, Diagrams and Timetables’ thread, querying if RTT were totally reliable.

”Well, Elspeth, I was just expecting a simple yes or no answer, but the thread ran on for seven or eight pages before it was closed by a Moderator - @Cowley I think he was called - because people kept making disparaging remarks about a Mr Shapps - whom I think may be related to Edith. A very erudite man called @Xenophon PCDGS referred to all the closed stations on the line the train might have passed through, while - do you remember your Uncle Algernon went to Zurich in the Great War - a contributor @Bletchleyite considered the crime might be easier to solve if our trains ran with tact, like the Swiss do, but I may be misremembering. Meanwhile @Bald Rick suggested that these days there wouldn’t be a case for the two lines to be open, and @yorkie suggested you could have got three pounds four shillings and sixpence off your ticket price by splitting your ticket - I assumed you would have to cut it in half, but apparently not. Anyway, I think the vicar did it. More tea?”

(I hope you gentlemen take this in good spirit, but if you don’t I will delete it immediately….)

 

[Gloster]

Did the series make up stories that weren’t based on books or short stories by Christie? The Plymouth Express certainly wasn’t a Christie book, but the 4.50 from Paddington was, so perhaps it was based on that. In the book - spoiler alert - a woman sees a murder when two trains are running parallel to each other in the window of an adjacent train. Was that the plot of The Plymouth Express? Never watched the series, not because I feared it would compromise the author’s intentions, but it clashed with Quiz League in the pub.

EDIT: I have just remembered that 4.50 from Paddington was Miss Marple, so did they transform detectives? Oops.

Miss Marple solved the crime, in one way, by consulting her nephew - I think - who knew a lot about trains. Today she’d be asking in the ‘Allocations, Diagrams and Timetables’ thread, querying if RTT were totally reliable.

The Plymouth Express appeared in the short story collection Poirot’s Early Cases, published in 1974 but consisting of short stories from early in her career. Unless the date is further back in the thread, it seems to date from around 1923.

Dorothy L.Sayers’ The Five Red Herrings does include a note about her asking station staff all sorts of questions.

 

[johnnychips]

The Plymouth Express appeared in the short story collection Poirot’s Early Cases, published in 1974 but consisting of short stories from early in her career. Unless the date is further back in the thread, it seems to date from around 1923.
’

Thank you. About thirty years’ ago I thought I’d collected all her books, but I must have forgotten this short story in that book. I definitely remember having the book.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Did the series make up stories that weren’t based on books or short stories by Christie? The Plymouth Express certainly wasn’t a Christie book, but the 4.50 from Paddington was, so perhaps it was based on that. In the book - spoiler alert - a woman sees a murder when two trains are running parallel to each other in the window of an adjacent train. Was that the plot of The Plymouth Express? Never watched the series, not because I feared it would compromise the author’s intentions, but it clashed with Quiz League in the pub.

EDIT: I have just remembered that 4.50 from Paddington was Miss Marple, so did they transform detectives? Oops.

Miss Marple solved the crime, in one way, by consulting her nephew - I think - who knew a lot about trains. Today she’d be asking in the ‘Allocations, Diagrams and Timetables’ thread, querying if RTT were totally reliable.

”Well, Elspeth, I was just expecting a simple yes or no answer, but the thread ran on for seven or eight pages before it was closed by a Moderator - @Cowley I think he was called - because people kept making disparaging remarks about a Mr Shapps - whom I think may be related to Edith. A very erudite man called @Xenophon PCDGS referred to all the closed stations on the line the train might have passed through, while - do you remember your Uncle Algernon went to Zurich in the Great War - a contributor @Bletchleyite considered the crime might be easier to solve if our trains ran with tact, like the Swiss do, but I may be misremembering. Meanwhile @Bald Rick suggested that these days there wouldn’t be a case for the two lines to be open, and @yorkie suggested you could have got three pounds four shillings and sixpence off your ticket price by splitting your ticket - I assumed you would have to cut it in half, but apparently not. Anyway, I think the vicar did it. More tea?”

(I hope you gentlemen take this in good spirit, but if you don’t I will delete it immediately….)

It was the 4.50 from Paddington that the lady sees the murder in the parallel train and Miss Marple, Joan Hickson solved the crime. The Plymouth Express involved another lady coming to a bad end on a train too, that was a Poirot story.