Police cars and level crossings

[Yabbadabba]

Very interesting! The few mechanical boxes I have seen and been in have the 'crossing clear' button, maybe it's a southern thing?

I know Pevensey & Westham, Hampden Park, Polegate and Berwick never had a crossing clear button for their MCBs and all but Hampden Park had barrier lock lever though.

I've also raised the barriers when the emergency services have approached on blues and twos but only when I haven't cleared any signals.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I can think of several in Lincolnshire.
For example, at Heckington, the box is adjacent the crossing, which is just as well as the signaller has to scramble up and down the steps to work the gates manually.

Why hasn't some sort of mechanism been added to enable the signalman to operate the barriers from the box?

 

[jopsuk]

There's a surprising number of crossings with manual gates operated by the crossing keeper- for example there's one on the West Anglia main line at Elsenham, which has four passenger services each way each hour (up to five at peak time) plus a small amount of freight

 

[najaB]

Why hasn't some sort of mechanism been added to enable the signalman to operate the barriers from the box?

Some boxes have them, some don't. It can be a wheel, a lever, a button or walking down the stairs and closing the gates manually.

 

[fireftrm]

I know how silly this forum can be at times, but even accepting that I really cannot believe the original post, or that it has created 5 pages in repsonse! God help us.
As an emergency service driver there has never been any question here, a rialway crossing is a stop sign, no question, no alternative. Stupidity alone suggests anything else. Please Stop this discussion!

 

[GB]

Hmm, a bit touchy?

The OP asked and innocent and innocuous question. No one has suggested the emergency services would do anything stupid. Most of the replies have been either to state that fact or from those that have worked crossings and have had the scenario of emergency vehicles waiting at crossings and explained why they have to hold them.

 

[najaB]

As an emergency service driver there has never been any question here, a rialway crossing is a stop sign, no question, no alternative. Stupidity alone suggests anything else. Please Stop this discussion!

Has anyone seriously suggested anything to the contrary?

 

[DaleCooper]

I know how silly this forum can be at times, but even accepting that I really cannot believe the original post, or that it has created 5 pages in repsonse! God help us.

I'm one of those silly people who wondered what the procedure was and so many years ago I also asked the question, it's the often the best way to acquire knowledge.

I imagine many trainee emergency drivers also ask the question.

Please Stop this discussion!

How about NO!?

 

[158747]

Please Stop this discussion!

What is wrong with discussing this subject? Surely discussion is the whole point of this forum!

 

[deltic1989]

I know how silly this forum can be at times, but even accepting that I really cannot believe the original post, or that it has created 5 pages in repsonse! God help us.
As an emergency service driver there has never been any question here, a rialway crossing is a stop sign, no question, no alternative. Stupidity alone suggests anything else. Please Stop this discussion!

So how would you expect the OP to acquire knowledge other than asking the question?
Whilst the answer may seem obvious to some, it may be a mystery to others.
One of my old NCO's in the Navy armed me with a phrase that I have kept with me for several years.
"The only silly question is one you never ask".
With this being a discussion forum, naturally members began discussing the topic. I see no reason why that should cease because one member thinks that the topic is silly. If you don't like the subject matter of the thread I am quite sure that you are free to not read it. I mean it's not as if there is a gun to your head or anything.

As an aside from the main point of my post. I would like to thank the signalers that have weighed in on this thread. As railway signalling is a particular interest of mine, it has been fascinating to see your contributions, and I have learned a lot from them.

I have on more than one occasion seen an emergency vehicle sitting at a crossing and felt rather bad that I am cracking on, while they, with far more important places to be, have to wait.
I sometimes worry if anyone or thing was seriously adversely affected by the delay.

 

[Llanigraham]

I know how silly this forum can be at times, but even accepting that I really cannot believe the original post, or that it has created 5 pages in repsonse! God help us.
As an emergency service driver there has never been any question here, a rialway crossing is a stop sign, no question, no alternative. Stupidity alone suggests anything else. Please Stop this discussion!

Hmm! Testy aren't you?
The OP asked a very sensible question and has been a very clear answer.

Signed a Signalman at a Level Crossing who also happens to be Blue Light trained!

 

[kevconnor]

Some boxes have them, some don't. It can be a wheel, a lever, a button or walking down the stairs and closing the gates manually.

Would anyone know what type it at Barnsley station? I was once sure passing through here back in 2003 I thought I saw it being operated manually but couldn't quite bring myself to believe what I thought I saw as it seemed so odd for such a busy crossing to be operated manually.

 

[Tomnick]

Barnsley (Jumble Lane) was, as it is now, barriers operated manually from a pedestal in the adjacent signal box.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Barnsley (Jumble Lane) was, as it is now, barriers operated manually from a pedestal in the adjacent signal box.

I appreciate we're getting further off topic here, but does Barnsley box now also control the crossing at Dodworth? I know there was a box there a few years ago but I think it's now boarded up, if it still exists. The crossing itself is less busy now (for road traffic) since the bypass opened.

 

[Tomnick]

I appreciate we're getting further off topic here, but does Barnsley box now also control the crossing at Dodworth? I know there was a box there a few years ago but I think it's now boarded up, if it still exists. The crossing itself is less busy now (for road traffic) since the bypass opened.

Yes, CCTV from Barnsley now (and ever since the new box went in at Barnsley?).

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If any fire engine, police car/van or ambulance needed to get the barriers at a given level crossing raised out of the way quick, do they have a direct line to the nearest signal box?

 

[carriageline]

If any fire engine, police car/van or ambulance needed to get the barriers at a given level crossing raised out of the way quick, do they have a direct line to the nearest signal box?

No. There's (normally?) a board with the boxes contact number on, but that's about it.

Unfortunately, once the barriers are down and signals are cleared they have to wait like everyone else.

I mean, very exceptional circumstances may cause me to change my mind, but there isn't a great deal that would.

 

[fireftrm]

SpacePhoenix shows exactly why I posted. The OP was still asking a silly question in my opinion.

 

[najaB]

SpacePhoenix shows exactly why I posted. The OP was still asking a silly question in my opinion.

You may see it as a silly question, but if he hadn't asked he wouldn't now know the answer. Believe it or not, that's how people find things out.

 

[Llanigraham]

If any fire engine, police car/van or ambulance needed to get the barriers at a given level crossing raised out of the way quick, do they have a direct line to the nearest signal box?

No.
To add, with the "Moreton interlocking" it is more likely to be quicker to let the train go by, anyway
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No. There's (normally?) a board with the boxes contact number on, but that's about it.

Unfortunately, once the barriers are down and signals are cleared they have to wait like everyone else.

I mean, very exceptional circumstances may cause me to change my mind, but there isn't a great deal that would.

The Board does not state the telephone number of the Signalbox.
My crossing doesn't have a board or a phone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

SpacePhoenix shows exactly why I posted. The OP was still asking a silly question in my opinion.

No such thing as a silly question (generally) especially if you don't know the answer. However there may be stupid answers to any question!

 

[carriageline]

The Board does not state the telephone number of the Signalbox.

My crossing doesn't have a board or a phone.

Well, mine do!

Ahh okay. I was mainly on about CCTV crossings, as both of mine have a "in case of emergency contact :" with the box number on it. Then my OD crossings have a public phone which comes through to the box.

 

[Tomnick]

The phone numbers on the plates at our CCTV crossings go through to Control, I think, rather than the controlling box. That's where the inevitable phone call comes from (at one crossing where the auto-raise has been signed out of use for more than three years) when we don't raise the barriers behind a train! There's no information at the MCBs though.

The only time when it might be useful for the emergency services to advise us would be at a CCTV crossing (where an emergency vehicle might not be visible) when there's a second train approaching for which the signals haven't yet been cleared - pretty unlikely though, as I suspect that most of us will pull off both ways as soon as it's clear that there won't be time for a swing in advance. I suppose their Control could always try to arrange a clear run before they get to the crossing though.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Fire, police and ambulance vehicles have no exemption against the horizontal flashing red lights used at level crossings/airports/outside fire stations (unless it's on a motorway as part of the red X sign). In short, if the lights are flashing then emergency drivers will stop and wait. They may try and find an alternative route if one is clearly obvious, but it may not be. It shouldn't be frustrating for any emergency driver, as attitude and the prevention of red mist is an important part of advanced driving. I've never known for any emergency control room to try and arrange a clear route with railway control, in the unusual event that a clear run is of vital importance (thinking of something like the liver run here), then it's more likely that a route would be planned to avoid level crossings entirely.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are the barriers interlocked with the track circuits to prevent the "barriers raising sequence" from happening if there's a train occupying the covering track circuit or the track circuits either side of the crossing?

 

[Tomnick]

Are the barriers interlocked with the track circuits to prevent the "barriers raising sequence" from happening if there's a train occupying the covering track circuit or the track circuits either side of the crossing?

Yes, in nearly all cases (except sometimes where the protecting signal is very close to an MCB crossing) the barriers can't be raised with a train occupying any track circuit between the protecting signal and the crossing.

 

[GB]

SpacePhoenix shows exactly why I posted. The OP was still asking a silly question in my opinion.

What exactly was wrong with SpacePhoenix's question? How do you expect people to learn?

I guess you were born with all the knowledge you currently have?

 

[LAX54]

Once the signals are cleared there's very little the crossing operator can do and the emergency services are trained well enough to sit and wait...they don't even sit there with their sirens going off.

Indeed, Red Lights at crossings are Mandatory Stop for all emergency services ***, no if's no but's, if it is a manned crossing and the train is in a station or close by, then there will be the normal 4 min timer on the protecting signal anyway, so it's just as quick to wait, if the barriers have just been lowered and signal yet to clear, then he can raise the barriers again, if there is a delay however, it will, and does go down an a signaller delay (OC)

*** = well, its Mandatory stop for EVERYONE, but many seem to find this so very hard to understand !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are the barriers interlocked with the track circuits to prevent the "barriers raising sequence" from happening if there's a train occupying the covering track circuit or the track circuits either side of the crossing?

Yes, which is why when there is a track circuit failure over a CCTV / AHB crossing, the barriers will be locked down, until either the S&T fix the fault, or an attendant gets there to put them on 'local control' this can of course take some considerable time if the S&T are miles away on another job, and the MOM has to get there from a distant location too, there is nothing a Signaller can do to chnage things, at AHB's if they have failed, (for whatever reason) the Signaller cannot permit you to go over the crossing, likewise if a Police Officer is on site, he cannot allow you to cross either.

 

[ainsworth74]

For the avoidance of doubt this forum broadly operates with a policy of 'there is no such thing as a stupid question'. What might be obvious to you may not be obvious to others. So, in future, if people feel that a question is so obvious and stupid as to not warrant posting please keep that to yourselves. Feel free to report (

) the post and the Forum Staff will make a judgement on the suitability of the post but it not the place of members to decide what is and is not a stupid question by posting on the forum in reply.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What exactly was wrong with SpacePhoenix's question? How do you expect people to learn?

I guess you were born with all the knowledge you currently have?

I think that some people sometimes forget that not everyone in this forum is an employee in the rail industry

 

[najaB]

I think that some people sometimes forget that not everyone in this forum is an employee in the rail industry

And, more specifically, not everyone is a signaller - there's no reason that a ticket office clerk would need to know the answer to your "stupid question". Keep-em coming is what I say!