2022 Conservative Leadership Election - Liz Truss chosen as party leader (and subsequent reshuffle)

[nlogax]

@Shrop - this is pretty much it. Truss v Sunak, the political version of 'what flavour of cold sick would you like?'

 

[nw1]

It was as misguided as his crazy "Eat out to help out" scheme during Covid. This was always likely to only provide money for those who could already afford or had time to eat out, and it was serviced by staff mainly with visors, whose breath was funnelled straight down on to the food they were serving. During Covid???Absolute madness!!!

To defend Sunak, this was during a lull in Covid infections during the summer of 2020 and provided a boost to the economy. Remember the current crisis is part caused by the effect of lockdown, and even though I am of a left-wing persuasion generally, I do think this was one of his better ideas. What were we supposed to do, discourage people from going out during this lull, and make the economic crisis even worse than it's turned out to be?

On the other hand, I am not a fan of the sort of things he is saying right now. As I said, more honest than Truss IMO, at least.

 

[Typhoon]

Believe me, if China goes into Taiwan, the effects on the world economy will dwarf the effects of Russia going into Ukraine, and Truss will be of negligible value if it does.

You forget her big weapon, she'll threat to close the 'pork markets' she boasted about.

Unfortunately, I reckon the last Foreign Secretary who had any sort of standing on the world stage was Hague. I gather that Truss may be lining up Cleverly for the position. Why? I've heard interviews with him when he was some foreign office minister, no presence, instantly forgettable. Its a senior role, that is why it was given to the likes of Bevin, Eden*, Butler, Home, Crosland, Carrington, Hurd, Howe were given the post (plus quite a few others). Unfortunately Johnson swept away most Conservatives with any stature and the priority seems to be the 'salesman' element.

In case anyone was thinking of asking about Labour, I'm not convinced there either. I wonder whether Starmer might not make a bad Foreign Sec, he's got a seriousness about him, and doesn't give too much away. Not being able to think of anyone better seems to indicate how far we've fallen.

* - Eden was PM during the Suez disaster rather than Foreign Sec, whether Churchill would have reined him in is difficult to say. He appears to have been a success during WWII.

 

[Bevan Price]

Apologies if I've missed some of this discussion, and that I find the prospect of reading through 900 posts somewhat daunting, but let me throw this in.
Sunak clearly demonstrated how out of touch he is with reality, when he cut fuel duty by 5p. This was an incredibly poor attempt to win a few votes, which cost the country a huge amount in lost taxes, while actually achieving virtually nothing for the general public as it paled into insignificance compared to the fuel price rises that were going on around it. It was as misguided as his crazy "Eat out to help out" scheme during Covid. This was always likely to only provide money for those who could already afford or had time to eat out, and it was serviced by staff mainly with visors, whose breath was funnelled straight down on to the food they were serving. During Covid???Absolute madness!!!
Meanwhile Truss has received support for potentially being better on foreign policy, which is a joke because we in the UK are pretty insignificant at that too. The whole world was caught napping by Putin, even though it was well known for months that he was amassing troops on the Ukranian border. Today, the Chinese are escalating exercises around Taiwan, and again, just as we did with Putin, we're doing nothing more than just keeping our fingers crossed that nothing actually happens. Believe me, if China goes into Taiwan, the effects on the world economy will dwarf the effects of Russia going into Ukraine, and Truss will be of negligible value if it does. Worse than this, she's so focussed on beating Sunak that she's barely even thinking about this latest threat, even if she was capable of doing anything about it.

If China should try a military takeover of Taiwan, the reality is that there is nothing effective that we, USA or the rest of the world, can do about it. Sanctions would be a waste of time, and military action would be dangerously stupid.

The only thing we can do is to endure a (very long) wait until - and inevitably - the Chinese people get fed up of being ruled by Communist tyrants, and decide to overthow them.

As for the tory leadership - for me it is a matter of which is the lesser of two "evils". To me, currently, Truss seems the worse choice. If we need "services" (NHS, etc.), they somehow have to be paid for - and that normally needs some taxation. Truss seems more likely to favour the "better-off" than the poor in the way taxes are raised.

 

[nw1]

If China should try a military takeover of Taiwan, the reality is that there is nothing effective that we, USA or the rest of the world, can do about it. Sanctions would be a waste of time, and military action would be dangerously stupid.

The only thing we can do is to endure a (very long) wait until - and inevitably - the Chinese people get fed up of being ruled by Communist tyrants, and decide to overthow them.

Hope this happens soon - regime change within China would be one of the best things to happen to the world . Of course they are not real communists. I have little doubt that the authoritarian tyrant Xi Jinping lives a life of absolute luxury.

As for the tory leadership - for me it is a matter of which is the lesser of two "evils". To me, currently, Truss seems the worse choice. If we need "services" (NHS, etc.), they somehow have to be paid for - and that normally needs some taxation. Truss seems more likely to favour the "better-off" than the poor in the way taxes are raised.

And as I said at least Sunak is a bit more honest than Truss. Truss's message (on economic matters, I won't go into other things as I have already) seems to me to be "I will cut your taxes - aren't I wonderful! I will spend money on some white-elephant project to travel from Manchester to Leeds in 20 minutes! Vote for me!!!"

The inevitable result will of course be, a few months post-election "Sorry, there's no money. Cuts, cuts, cuts. For many years!". And we will have no chance for a change until 2029. Life under the early years of a 2024 Truss government will, I suspect, be grim indeed: Cameron-Osborne austerity all over again, but with a dashing of right-wing populist nationalism on top.

Which is why IMO it should be Sunak now (for 18 months), and Labour in 2024. Little chance of the former, but still hopeful of the latter.

 

[ainsworth74]

So any of our Tory Party members willing to stick their head above the parapet and confess which of the two options they voted for or will vote for?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

So any of our Tory Party members willing to stick their head above the parapet and confess which of the two options they voted for or will vote for?

I'll confess to being a solid don't-know

I had been inclined towards Rishi Sunak, since I agreed with him on 'sound money', and there didn't seem to be much else to distinguish the two of them policy-wise. But his recent flip-flopping has put me off: The last thing I want is a(nother) prime minister who just follows wherever the wind is blowing. So now I'm a don't know!

 

[TwoYellas]

I'll confess to being a solid don't-know

I had been inclined towards Rishi Sunak, since I agreed with him on 'sound money'. But his recent flip-flopping has put me off: The last thing I want is a(nother) prime minister who just follows wherever the wind is blowing. So now I'm a don't know!

Agree with you for the first time ever.
I think Sunak just wants to be PM - must be good t&c's.

I heard a saying once, I think from the states, that the person who should be leader, usually is someone that doesn't want it. And the person who wants it, should be nowhere near it.

I think there's some truth in that statement.

 

[Shrop]

Private Eye has summed it up well with this cartoon (cartoon showing a dead tree in the desert). Vote for either Sunak or Truss with their promises of being able to conjure up something out of nothing just to win votes, and you may as well say you believe in magic

 

[nlogax]

The last thing I want is a(nother) prime minister who just follows wherever the wind is blowing. So now I'm a don't know!

That also describes the behaviour of Truss..

 

[Howardh]

It's taken Truss four hours to u-turn on her cost of living proposals! After being slated for her lunchtime interview, where it was all about tax cuts and growing the economy (not much use to those on a pension who aren't taxed) therefore helping the richest of the rich and not the poor, it's reported (by the Guardian at least) that she now does want to "offer payments to struggling people".

Sunak accuses Truss of major U-turn after she says she will do ‘all I can to help struggling households’ with fuel bills – as it happened

Tory leadership contender says rival had previously dismissed direct support as ‘handouts’

www.theguardian.com

Truss says she will do 'all I can to help struggling households' with fuel bills​

Liz Truss has issued a new press statement signalling that she is open to offering people payments to help them cope with rising energy bills if she becomes prime minister. It is the culmination of a U-turn (see 11.40am) that has been gradually underway since the end of last week, when she told told the Financial Times in an interview: “I would do things is in a Conservative way of lowering the tax burden, not giving out handouts.”

In the press notice she still stresses that her priority is cutting the tax burden.

 

[Lost property]

Now why does Carly Simon's song immediately spring to mind ?

Nicola Sturgeon says Liz Truss asked her ‘how to get into Vogue’

Scottish first minister said Truss ‘looked a little bit as if she’d swallowed a wasp’ when she told her she had been in Vogue twice

www.theguardian.com

 

[brad465]

Are there anymore TV debates/interviews planned between now and the 5th September?

 

[jfollows]

Are there anymore TV debates/interviews planned between now and the 5th September?

There are SEVEN more hustings events/debates, yes really, starting with one in Cheltenham at 7pm tonight. They are "online" but I don't know whether or not they're televised. However I don't think there are any more TV debates.

 

[nlogax]

There are SEVEN more hustings events/debates, yes really, starting with one in Cheltenham at 7pm tonight.

Seven? Bloody hell. Seven more opportunities for Truss to drone on about 'delivering', seven more opportunities for Sunak to shoehorn in his stock 'lefty lawyers' phrase.

 

[AlterEgo]

Seven? Bloody hell. Seven more opportunities for Truss to drone on about 'delivering', seven more opportunities for Sunak to shoehorn in his stock 'lefty lawyers' phrase.

I really don’t know if I can take much more of this leadership contest.

 

[Berliner]

There seems to have been far too many of these televised debates for a choice which barely anyone in the country can actually make.

 

[nlogax]

I really don’t know if I can take much more of this leadership contest.

Indeed. It's quite mad, I don't remember previous leadership contests being quite so heavy on the debates and interviews.

There seems to have been far too many of these televised debates for a choice which barely anyone in the country can actually make.

Conservative Party members number barely 0.37% of all registered voters.

 

[DC1989]

I can't believe this is being dragged out for weeks and weeks. In the meantime we have a impotent Government that can't make any decisions.

 

[brad465]

Yes the amount this is dragging out is both damaging to the country and to the Tory party itself, the former because a plan to get through Autumn and Winter is needed fast, and the latter because of the lack of aforementioned plan combined with the 2 candidates and their backers' infighting.

Apparently Labour are drafting their own proposal to be released next week (Gordon Brown's recent public statements are believed to be linked to this), which, while it should have been sooner on their part, it's looking like they'll still get theirs in earlier than the Government.

Seven? Bloody hell. Seven more opportunities for Truss to drone on about 'delivering', seven more opportunities for Sunak to shoehorn in his stock 'lefty lawyers' phrase.

I wonder if they're planning to do one with Sun readers again (the one where Kate McCann fainted)? I don't know why they bother, because, as Bernard Woolley once said "Sun readers don't care who runs the country, so long as she's got big t**s."

 

[birchesgreen]

There seems to have been far too many of these televised debates for a choice which barely anyone in the country can actually make.

Silly season i suppose, nothing else going on is there!

 

[DelayRepay]

Now why does Carly Simon's song immediately spring to mind ?

Nicola Sturgeon says Liz Truss asked her ‘how to get into Vogue’

Scottish first minister said Truss ‘looked a little bit as if she’d swallowed a wasp’ when she told her she had been in Vogue twice

www.theguardian.com

From the linked article:

Truss... told the audience that “the best thing to do with Nicola Sturgeon is to ignore her”.

Well that one policy I could support

 

[jfollows]

I really don’t know if I can take much more of this leadership contest.

I'm with you - but tonight's thing is being covered at https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rishi-sunak-brexit-economy-uk-politics-latest just to give one example, there are probably others, but it doesn't seem to be on TV, at least none of the new channels on my cable TV show it.
I'd have thought most of the electorate would have made up its mind by now, barring huge gaffes by either of the two candidates. But they presumably think they need to stomp around the country to keep their faithful followers happy - they're reasonably likely to lose Cheltenham (tonight's venue) at the next election, for example.

 

[ainsworth74]

I really don’t know if I can take much more of this leadership contest.

I absolutely think both parties should go back to having their Parliamentary parties choose the leader rather than throwing out to their wider memberships. I struggle to see what this (and previous Labour) farces actually add to the process.

 

[jfollows]

Apparently tonight's Cheltenham hustings had its start delayed by 15 minutes to accommodate the large number of people attending, so I'll presume these things are still popular with Conservative party members.

EDIT Or they're just badly organised.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I absolutely think both parties should go back to having their Parliamentary parties choose the leader rather than throwing out to their wider memberships. I struggle to see what this (and previous Labour) farces actually add to the process.

One thing membership votes add is givine people across the entire country a say in the process. If you had the leader chosen only by the Parliamentary Party then all the parts of the country that have few or no MPs for that party would have no say at all. Would you want - say - a Labour leader elected only by London and the inner cities? And imagine how that would work for LibDem leadership elections! Or Green party leadership elections with their one MP! (although I realise you were possibly excluding smaller parties from your suggestion).

 

[Berliner]

From the linked article:


Well that one policy I could support

You can support it all you like but is it sensible for the PM of the UK to ignore the democratically elected leader of one of the constituent nations? Especially as that leader uses that kind of thing to further her own agenda?

Personally I support independence and I hope Truss wins and follows through on her promise as that would be the biggest boost for independence she could give.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I really don’t know if I can take much more of this leadership contest.

There's always this option:

...


(Image says: Rick Astley for Prime Minister. He will NEVER
Give you up
Let you down
Run around
Desert you
Make you cry
Say goodbye
Tell a lie
Hurt you)

 

[ainsworth74]

One thing membership votes add is givine people across the entire country a say in the process. If you had the leader chosen only by the Parliamentary Party then all the parts of the country that have few or no MPs for that party would have no say at all. Would you want - say - a Labour leader elected only by London and the inner cities?

As non-Tory party member can't say I feel like I have much say in the process! As a relative recent innovation (early 00s for the Tories I think though longer ago for Labour?) I do have to question what this, seemingly, American idea has really brought to the whole shooting match?

And imagine how that would work for LibDem leadership elections! Or Green party leadership elections with their one MP! (although I realise you were possibly excluding smaller parties from your suggestion).

If there's only one MP then it's an easy decision surely?

But yes it definitely wouldn't work for the smaller parties so their procedure would need to be different.

 

[brad465]

Assuming this Mail journalist is correct, then oops:

https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1557805805264674819

Liz Truss is in Gloucestershire She says: "We need to get on with delivering the small modular nuclear reactors which we produce HERE IN DERBYSHIRE"