Portsmouth to Liverpool - how can I avoid London?

[kwelsby]

Dear all

My wife and I will be travelling from Portsmouth to Liverpool in late March / early April. One way only. We're both seniors but don't have senior railcards.

We will be arriving Portsmouth by overnight ferry from France, so want a degree of flexibility, but probably departing PMH about 09h00.

Since we will have a lot of luggage, I'm wondering about avoiding London. I'm also suggesting the harbour station rather than PMS since platform access is more or less level.

Grateful for any suggestions on route / timing / fares. Nat rail journey planner doesn't seem to have any sensible suggestions!

Or do we simply bit the bullet and find a reliable private hire car for the cross-London transfer [from either VIC or WAT - we used to prefer the Southern service when we did it regularly years ago!] Any pointers / recommends / avoids for this will also be welcome.

TIA

Ken

 

[yorkie]

The forum's ticket site lets you choose up to 3 via points and up to 3 avoiding points. You can also specify maximum changing points (in this case two is probably a realistic minimum!)

If you are always going to be travelling together, you can get one two together railcard, rather than 2x senior railcards.

For example, picking a random date in early March (late March may not yet be available on some operators) just one way for 2 poeple with a railcard found fares of around the 50 pound mark (covering both of you) with either changes at Southampton/Birmingham or Newport/Chester. Other options are available.

There is the option to specify flexible fares only (works better with returns than singles) if you want flexibility to travel at different times .

You can also specify extra time at a station; this could simply be to allow more time to change trains or it could be for a lunch break.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would travel via London, but instead of the Tube use the number 68 bus (free on your passes) from Waterloo to Euston. Out of the main Waterloo station, down a few steps (sorry! I think step free routes would be more awkward), across the taxi road, under the arch and the stop is there. At Euston it stops right outside in the bus station.

You could do it by rail via Kensington Olympia (change Clapham Jn, Watford Jn and Milton Keynes Central or if using LNR Birmingham New St) but it'd be a massive faff and those trains are often severely overcrowded. If on a budget sticking with Euston but using the LNR service to Crewe and changing there for Liverpool is likely the best budget bet.

 

[Gloster]

I haven’t been through Portsmouth for more than four years, but there was a good sized lift up to the high level platforms at Portsmouth & Southsea. Or you could get a stopper from the low level platforms. If you are catching a taxi from the ferry terminal, you could consider taking it to Fratton or Cosham, where entry should be level.

One possibility would be the Portsmouth-Waterloo train via Eastleigh as far as Winchester and then catch a Cross-Country from there. It should be the same platform.

But, as said, I haven’t been out and about for quite a few years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, you'll want a taxi from the ferry terminal to your chosen station. It's a heck of a long walk (the ferry terminal is nowhere near Harbour now, it's out in a suburb, designed mostly for the car traffic though for foot passengers it does have a very nice departures hall with a Costa etc, much nicer than Dover). I've done it, but suspect most older people would not want to.

Cosham may not be a bad bet at all, it'll be quicker to get there as the journey is mostly motorway and not into congested Portsmouth itself, though the trains are slower.

Talking of buses, if you're going to Victoria then the 390 is the same deal, goes from immediately outside Victoria to immediately outside Euston. Quite slow but not unpleasant.

 

[AndyPJG]

Is Portsmouth - Basingstoke - Birmingham - Liverpool an option?

I've being doing Walton-on-Thames to Manchester via Basingstoke now instead of via London as much easier to change platforms at Basingstoke than Waterloo to Euston

 

[kwelsby]

Thanks to all, I will study your suggestions.

For the international port [Brittany Ferries] to and from the city centre we always use Aqua Cars. Clean, quick and reliable.

 

[30907]

With a fair amount of baggage a London bus might be a challenge.

Portsmouth/Fratton/Cosham-Winchester (same platform, 30min wait)-Wolverhampton-Liverpool is the most straightforward.

A senior railcard each might well pay for itself, a Two Together (not valid until 0930 though) certainly would, and both can be used on a smartphone.

 

[The exile]

If time is not a worry, why not Portsmouth (or Cosham) - Newport, Newport - Crewe (or Chester, depending on which hour you leave South Wales), thence to Liverpool?

 

[Bletchleyite]

With a fair amount of baggage a London bus might be a challenge.

A low floor bus isn't a challenge with luggage, just sit downstairs and pile it on a seat or in the multipurpose area (you don't often see prams on London buses). Obviously you'd have to move it if a wheelchair user boarded but odds on they wouldn't. London buses aren't busy at 11am-ish on a weekday.

With loads of luggage I'd recommend a black cab to cross London.

As the OP doesn't want a fixed time, I would be more worried about overcrowding on XC, and wouldn't consider bringing them into it a good idea.

A senior railcard each might well pay for itself, a Two Together (not valid until 0930 though) certainly would, and both can be used on a smartphone.

I'd still recommend a plastic card version. The app seems to have improved a bit but isn't wonderful.

 

[WizCastro197]

As you said you liked the southern service when you did it: If you want to go to Victoria from Portsmouth Harbour (PMH) a change may be required at Portsmouth and Southsea (where the service now begins), unless you time it well and are able to get the 1 train per day from PMH.

 

[Alex365Dash]

As you said you liked the southern service when you did it: If you want to go to Victoria from Portsmouth Harbour (PMH) a change may be required at Portsmouth and Southsea (where the service now begins), unless you time it well and are able to get the 1 train per day from PMH.

Since it leaves from Low Level anyway, you could always get the taxi to Portsmouth & Southsea, which has ramps for step-free access to the low level platforms. Failing that, it’s easier to change at Fratton rather than Portsmouth & Southsea with it being a same-platform interchange rather than down the lift.

 

[fandroid]

I'm not sure why you don't think of travelling via London.

That route is quite likely to be cheaper and definitely faster than any one avoiding London.

Through tickets can be bought from Portsmouth. Use a London taxi for the journey within London. It's really the best bet if you've a lot of luggage.

Any train route avoiding London is likely to involve some trains that are hopelessly inadequate for luggage and changes at stations that are just as bad for heaving bags around .

SWR trains from Portsmouth Harbour direct to London Waterloo are not great for bags, but they'll be almost empty starting from there, and you can grab a disabled or bicycle space for the bags.

Trains direct from London Euston to Liverpool are fast and better for bags too.

There'll be plenty of taxis waiting at London Waterloo and it shouldn't cost too much.

Keep it simple and enjoy your journey!

 

[NeilWatson]

Fandroid: lI'm not sure why you don't think of travelling via London. That route is quite likely to be cheaper and definitely faster than any one avoiding London. Through tickets can be bought from Portsmouth. Use a London taxi for the journey within London. It's really the best bet if you've a lot of luggage. Any train route avoiding London is likely to involve some trains that are hopelessly inadequate for luggage and changes at stations that are just as bad for heaving bags around . SWR trains from Portsmouth Harbour direct to London Waterloo are not great for bags, but they'll be almost empty starting from there, and you can grab a disabled or bicycle space for the bags. Trains direct from London Euston to Liverpool are fast and better for bags too. Keep it simple and enjoy your journey!”

Disabled spaces are for the disabled, not for luggage

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disabled spaces are for the disabled, not for luggage

Pragmatically, rather than being Doug Paulley, as long as you move it if a wheelchair user boards without needing to be asked it isn't a problem. Though off peak you can always put it on a seat, the trains the OP intends to use will not be busy.

 

[WizCastro197]

I'm not sure why you don't think of travelling via London.

London can be stressful for some. The hustle and bustle and the thought of crowded trains can be off putting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London can be stressful for some. The hustle and bustle and the thought of crowded trains can be off putting.

It can, but in reality you'll encounter quieter trains if you go via London at the times the OP is travelling, because you'll avoid XC and the Southern "round the side" service, both of which are known for severe overcrowding.

Take a taxi across London and the busy Tube is avoided too.

 

[paul1609]

Hi,

Dear all

My wife and I will be travelling from Portsmouth to Liverpool in late March / early April. One way only. We're both seniors but don't have senior railcards.

We will be arriving Portsmouth by overnight ferry from France, so want a degree of flexibility, but probably departing PMH about 09h00.

Since we will have a lot of luggage, I'm wondering about avoiding London. I'm also suggesting the harbour station rather than PMS since platform access is more or less level.

Grateful for any suggestions on route / timing / fares. Nat rail journey planner doesn't seem to have any sensible suggestions!

Or do we simply bit the bullet and find a reliable private hire car for the cross-London transfer [from either VIC or WAT - we used to prefer the Southern service when we did it regularly years ago!] Any pointers / recommends / avoids for this will also be welcome.

TIA

Ken

Hi Ken,
You'll be arriving at what's now known as Portsmouth International Port, its about 1.5 miles north of Portsmouth & Southsea Station.
With Luggage the easiest way is to get a cab to Fratton Station its 2.7 miles away about 10-15 mins.
The advantage of Fratton is that from the taxi drop off point its literally through the ticket barriers and straight on to Platform 1.
Unless there's disruption all "out of city" trains leave from Platform 1, all trains stop at Fratton.
The biggest taxi company in Portsmouth are Aqua Cabs who are pretty decent https://www.aquacars.co.uk/ 02392 654321 they also have an app where you can book online.
To avoid London the best way is currently to change at Guildford, Reading, Birmingham New Street but this comes with a time penalty a journey will typically take over 6 hours. There is pretty much a train every hour off the XX. 54 Fratton to Waterloo Service (via Guildford). On this route all the changes are pretty relaxed for changing trains with Luggage (Birmingham is circa 40 mins).
You can find tickets for this route by using a retailer (like Trainsplit) that lets you put in two via points and Specifying "Guildford" and "Reading".
The alternative is a cab from Waterloo to Euston.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi,

Hi Ken,
You'll be arriving at what's now known as Portsmouth International Port, its about 1.5 miles north of Portsmouth & Southsea Station.
With Luggage the easiest way is to get a cab to Fratton Station its 2.7 miles away about 10-15 mins.
The advantage of Fratton is that from the taxi drop off point its literally through the ticket barriers and straight on to Platform 1.
Unless there's disruption all "out of city" trains leave from Platform 1, all trains stop at Fratton.
The biggest taxi company in Portsmouth are Aqua Cabs who are pretty decent https://www.aquacars.co.uk/ 02392 654321 they also have an app where you can book online.

I don’t think the OP is actually new to Portsmouth ferry port, as he’s mentioned that he’s already a user of Aqua Cars - please note post #7.

I do agree that going from the Ferry Port straight to Fratton is a good idea though, I suspect many people don’t realise it’s hardly any different in terms of distance, only a few hundred yards...

 

[lnerazuma]

Would you consider National Express? It departs directly from Portsmouth International Port everyday at 08:35, 2hrs non stop to London (1.5 hrs only for weekend journey). Save a lot of hassle of getting a local taxi from the port to train station.

 

[hermit]

Would you consider National Express? It departs directly from Portsmouth International Port everyday at 08:35, 2hrs non stop to London (1.5 hrs only for weekend journey). Save a lot of hassle of getting a local taxi from the port to train station.

That’s a good option - if combined with a black cab from Victoria Coach Station to Euston. Getting from the coach station to Victoria Underground is a surprisingly long and awkward walk, to be avoided if you’ve got luggage.

 

[daodao]

Posters recommending a change at Birmingham New Street are providing poor advice. The platforms are cramped, changing to another platform for the Liverpool train is not straightforward even without luggage, and short notice platform alterations are not uncommon. If choosing this route, it would be better to continue on the XC service from Wessex as far as Wolverhampton.

 

[fandroid]

London can be stressful for some. The hustle and bustle and the thought of crowded trains can be off putting.

That's why I suggested using taxis. The absolutely usual way of avoiding the hassle of changing trains and crowding in London.


The original request just highlights how poorly connected Portsmouth is to northern England. Crosscountry Services have been steadily cut back over the years, leaving the city marooned. There's not even an hourly train going north at Winchester anymore, which could have provided a simple same-platform interchange with the Waterloo via Basingstoke trains from Portsmouth.

Liverpool hasn't been a Cross-country destination from the south for decades, but the south coast is being cut off from just about everywhere except London.

I do my best to influence this every time there's a consultation, but with no positive results.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Posters recommending a change at Birmingham New Street are providing poor advice. The platforms are cramped, changing to another platform for the Liverpool train is not straightforward even without luggage, and short notice platform alterations are not uncommon. If choosing this route, it would be better to continue on the XC service from Wessex as far as Wolverhampton.

I don't agree, because that would substantially reduce the chance of a seat on the Liverpool service.

 

[paul1609]

Posters recommending a change at Birmingham New Street are providing poor advice. The platforms are cramped, changing to another platform for the Liverpool train is not straightforward even without luggage, and short notice platform alterations are not uncommon. If choosing this route, it would be better to continue on the XC service from Wessex as far as Wolverhampton.

I think its 50/50 since New Street has been redeveloped tbh. However the Reading to Manchester trains pause there for 5 to 10 mins so you have plenty of time to get the luggage off. It has 2 lifts to every platform so you are unlikely to find the lifts out of order. It has the lounge areas to wait in, with toilets and refreshments for the 40 mins in most cases and you are more likely to get your choice of seat on the Liverpool train.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Dear all

My wife and I will be travelling from Portsmouth to Liverpool in late March / early April. One way only. We're both seniors but don't have senior railcards.

We will be arriving Portsmouth by overnight ferry from France, so want a degree of flexibility, but probably departing PMH about 09h00.

Since we will have a lot of luggage, I'm wondering about avoiding London. I'm also suggesting the harbour station rather than PMS since platform access is more or less level.

Grateful for any suggestions on route / timing / fares. Nat rail journey planner doesn't seem to have any sensible suggestions!

Or do we simply bit the bullet and find a reliable private hire car for the cross-London transfer [from either VIC or WAT - we used to prefer the Southern service when we did it regularly years ago!] Any pointers / recommends / avoids for this will also be welcome.

TIA

Ken

You can do the following:

GWR/SWR to Southampton Central or Basingstoke
CrossCountry to Birmingham New Street or Wolverhampton
WMR to Liverpool Lime Street

 

[richw]

That’s a good option - if combined with a black cab from Victoria Coach Station to Euston. Getting from the coach station to Victoria Underground is a surprisingly long and awkward walk, to be avoided if you’ve got luggage.

Why not a coach from London to Liverpool too? Would only need a short walk from arrivals to departures.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Posters recommending a change at Birmingham New Street are providing poor advice. The platforms are cramped, changing to another platform for the Liverpool train is not straightforward even without luggage, and short notice platform alterations are not uncommon. If choosing this route, it would be better to continue on the XC service from Wessex as far as Wolverhampton.

Alternatively, they could change at Wolverhampton instead (the XC route from Southampton or Basingstoke also stops at Wolverhampton)

 

[paul1609]

You can do the following:

GWR/SWR to Southampton Central or Basingstoke
CrossCountry to Birmingham New Street or Wolverhampton
WMR to Liverpool Lime Street

Whilst I agree that this is possible it has several disadvantages because the south coast cross country train south of Reading is only every two hours currently.
The connection to Southampton is the GWR Cardiff Central service which are habitually short formed and full and standing. The connection at Southampton Central is generally from platform 3 or 4 to 1which is with luggage up a lift across the station and down in another lift within 8 minutes and if you fail to make the connection you have to wait another 2 hours.
If you use SWR to head north towards Basingstoke the best place to change is actually Winchester because its same platform but there is only 1 tph from Portsmouth and there is await of 40 mins for the same 2 hourly XC service from Southampton.

Why not a coach from London to Liverpool too? Would only need a short walk from arrivals to departures.

Id suggest because the journey time is between 9 and 11 hours after an overnight ferry from France. I'm a keen coach user but not that keen.

 

[kwelsby]

Dear all
Thanks for all the advice.
One of my chums in the Midlands says that New Street's long history of short-notice platform changes – which dates back at least to the 1970s-80s when I used it every day – is now consigned to, er, the history books. He's not a rail insider, just a frequent traveller through BHM, and says:

Platform info is much more reliable these days. I haven't suffered one of those dreaded "platform alteration" announcements for a while. I wonder if this is because the station is now controlled from the new computer centre rather than the old signal box outside the station? Maybe the new systems give the operators better advance / operating information? And plenty of choice for refreshments.