Possible AC EMU future cascade scenarios?

[ls2270]

The first Class 360/2 is on its way for scrap today:
5Q76 1001 Bicester MOD to Newport Docks: 37611 hauling 360205.

 

[DBS92042]

I presume ROG haven't found any work for them and all 5 will go in due course

 

[ls2270]

Yes another sub class begins its journey to oblivion!

 

[swt_passenger]

The first one is on its way for scrap today:
5Q76 1001 Bicester MOD to Newport Docks: 37611 hauling 360205.

I don’t think anyone here expected any of ROG‘s proposals were ever going to work. Spot hire? Parcels?

 

[45076]

That is mad!

 

[Class360/1]

I’m shocked but not shocked at the and time.

Shocked because of their condition and age, but not because ROGs proposals would never work

Shame EMR didn’t want them to bolster their existing /1s

 

[ls2270]

I’m shocked but not shocked at the and time.

Shocked because of their condition and age, but not because ROGs proposals would never work

Shame EMR didn’t want them to bolster their existing /1s

Yea absolutely. Would have thought the parts would have been useful for the 360/1 fleet at the very least.

 

[Energy]

Rail Operations Group said after they bought them that the placement of some equipment made them unsuitable for freight. Presumably they never found a business for passenger spot hire (I'm guessing Desiros are cleared on most of the electrified network). (source)

 

[swt_passenger]

Yea absolutely. Would have thought the parts would have been useful for the 360/1 fleet at the very least.

But nearly all the parts of a 360/1 will be common to 350 and 450, and some common to 444. So it’s highly unlikely Siemens will be struggling for parts at all.

Although parts recovery is suggested many times when units are scrapped, how often is it ever actually done or needed?

 

[Invincible]

But nearly all the parts of a 360/1 will be common to 350 and 450, and some common to 444. So it’s highly unlikely Siemens will be struggling for parts at all.

Although parts recovery is suggested many times when units are scrapped, how often is it ever actually done or needed?

Would have thought SWR could have used and maintained them with the 360s, but seem committed to the 701 (when they finally enter service?)

 

[Energy]

Would have thought SWR could have used and maintained them with the 360s, but seem committed to the 701 (when they finally enter service?)

They would need modifications for 3rd rail.

Unfortunately ROG got them as the DfT were slimming down fleets at TOCs so spot hire wasn't going to be big business.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Would have thought SWR should have used and maintained them with the 360s, but seem committed to the 701 (when they finally enter service?)

25 extra coaches would help out with SWR for a short term, but nothings ever as simple as that. It's bizzare how 20 year old EMUs with air con (unlike the 365s), TPWS (unlike the 332s) can be sent for scrap whilst diesel lingers on - and while they are a small subfleet, that are certainly compatible with several others being part of the Desiro family.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does make one wonder if scrapping of the 350/2s is a real possibility!

 

[Class360/1]

What will happen to the spares acquired? Will they be sent to EMR?

 

[JonathanH]

It does make one wonder if scrapping of the 350/2s is a real possibility!

...and 379s.

However, the 360/2s, as a five unit fleet, were relatively difficult to place with a further operator when no one needs them.

 

[45076]

It does make one wonder if scrapping of the 350/2s is a real possibility!

Indeed it does, what a crazy situation to be in.

 

[Class360/1]

But nearly all the parts of a 360/1 will be common to 350 and 450, and some common to 444. So it’s highly unlikely Siemens will be struggling for parts at all.

Although parts recovery is suggested many times when units are scrapped, how often is it ever actually done or needed?

Not very often, as most of the time an entire class (bar 1 for preservation) is scrapped at once.

Doesn’t often happen at Newport.

 

[JonathanH]

What will happen to the spares acquired? Will they be sent to EMR?

There may not be any spares. Depends on the value of the spares and the value of the material as scrap.

As an example, the seat frames would in theory be useful for other Desiro fleets but where would they be kept until they were needed?

 

[swt_passenger]

What will happen to the spares acquired? Will they be sent to EMR?

I tried to explain earlier why there may not need to be any spares recovery at all. In any case, EMR 360/1s come under Northampton Kings Heath for major maintenance, in common with all the similar 350s, so I’d expect that’s where spares are controlled from for the AC and dual voltage units.

 

[43066]

Any chance they can do the EMR 360s while they’re about it?

 

[AlexNL]

Wasn't it also the case that the 360/2s had ATP and AWS but not TPWS, thus being an oddity which would never be mainline certified without adjustments? Or was that the case for the 332s?

 

[Jturner98]

Surprised there wasn’t talk of them temporary going to LNWR to see off some or all of the remaining 319s until the 730s are ready.

 

[YSTrains]

Very saddened about this. I used to travel with these units all the time.

 

[JonathanH]

Surprised there wasn’t talk of them temporary going to LNWR to see off some or all of the remaining 319s until the 730s are ready.

One of the things it appears DfT are very keen to avoid is driver training costs, although the conversion from 350s would perhaps not be substantial. It also isn't known how far the 360/2s were away from the need for expensive overhauls to continue to operate.

At the time the 360s became spare, the need for them to provide cover somewhere wasn't identified. It isn't always easy to take stock from sidings and put it back into service after an idle period.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surprised there wasn’t talk of them temporary going to LNWR to see off some or all of the remaining 319s until the 730s are ready.

I think just about anything you could possibly think of regarding other TOC services was covered back in the 2020 suggestions thread before they were retired to ROG. Someone did actually suggest the Abbey Flyer.

If anyone needs a refresh, here’s the last significant speculation thread:

Where could the ex-Heathrow Connect class 360/2s be used? Or will they be scrapped?

Created this thread to discuss possibilities, so they aren't clogging the non-speculative thread. Speculate away! :) The ones I had heard were: - Sale to Thailand for use on the Bangkok Airport route alongside their existing Desiros - Scrap

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[adc82140]

It seems utterly wasteful, but to be blunt there is absolutely no use anywhere for a microfleet of these. WMR are binning off some similar 350s, so would have no interest. EMR have said they don't want them. Converting them to DC for SWR would be too costly, as non gangwayed they would be non standard in the fleet. Export was unlikely, as there are just 5 units. They have been sat outside rotting for a handful of years, so scrap it is.

I wonder if any will end up with the emergency services. A modern train to practice on.

 

[RealTrains07]

One does wonder whether the 360/2s will be the last modern stock to go to scrap??

very concerning times.

 

[Jturner98]

Maybe Porterbrook might snap one up to use as a test bed for battery trials. Apparently they are looking at fitting batteries to the 350/2 units. But that seems to of done quiet now.

 

[Halish Railway]

What a farce, a complete failure of our railways.

How many cancelled / Graylinged / slowly implemented / otherwise possible electrification schemes would have found a home for these units? I’m specifically looking at the Midland Mainline electrification, alongside the electrification of its branch lines such as Matlock that would have enabled stopping services to switch over to electric traction.

Say what you want about these units, but the people of the East Midlands would bite your arm off for some high capacity, high performance, reliable electric trains instead of the best offering for stopping services in the East Midlands, a sluggish 3 carriage Class 170.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Insanity. Trains less than 20 years old and with similar classes all around the world, being sent for scrap whilst Mk3 based EMUs still blight the network. Total insanity.