Possible new platform at Exeter Central down the middle

[brad465]

In the thread about 175s moving to GWR, the subject of Exeter St Davids canning the extension to P2 and Exeter Central being more useful came up. This got me thinking how feasible would adding a new platform at Exeter Central, using the space in the middle once occupied by through lines, be? If there was I think you could turn trains round in the platform from both directions and increase the capacity to serve the station overall. If the platform is long enough there may even be value in turning some IETs from Paddington round in that platform.

The best example I can think of for similar work is Gravesend, where the two existing through running lines were removed in order to have two through platforms and a bay platform, which increased the platform count by 1 and allows terminating trains to not block either of the through platforms while turning round.

 

[Nucker]

Not sure whether IETs are able to get up/down the Exeter Bank, plus you'd probably need more points from the West of England Line into Platforms 4, 5 & 6 at St Davids. There is Certainly room for more platforms though, if needed. Especially if you're willing to rebuild the platforms. But I think priority for Central is passenger capacity upgrade at Queen Street Entrance

 

[Gloster]

Unless they have widened the existing platforms there should be enough room, but I bet that the costs of providing access for passengers would be astronomical.

 

[brad465]

Not sure whether IETs are able to get up/down the Exeter Bank, plus you'd probably need more points from the West of England Line into Platforms 4, 5 & 6 at St Davids. There is Certainly room for more platforms though, if needed. Especially if you're willing to rebuild the platforms. But I think priority for Central is passenger capacity upgrade at Queen Street Entrance

Pretty sure IETs have done the bank when they're diverted via Yeovil and Axminster, unless they just teleport through Exeter somehow.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

One option would be to reinstate the centre roads, with scissors crossings midway along the two (long) platforms, effectively dividing them in two and provide a very flexible layout for through and terminating services. It also has the advantage of not requiring any new passenger access.

The 1987 layout for St. David's was fine with the service pattern at the time, and provided a faster entrance and exit for down WR trains. It meant, however, passengers off these had to tramp over the footbridge and the main facilities on Platform 1 were somewhat isolated. The success of the Devon Metro and the desire for more cross Exeter services means the layout is now ill suited - I think it should revert to the pre-1987 arrangement albeit with improved geometry. Through services between Waterloo and Barnstaple / Okehampton anyone?

 

[Nucker]

A Barnstaple to Waterloo fast would greatly ease overcrowding on the line, though I expect would require a couple passing loops at least. I think the scissor idea is quite good as well, though I feel an ultimate goal for Exeter should be for all EXC services to be through services to maximise capacity. Munich S-Bahn core (electric 2 track) has 30tph!!
Do you have diagram of pre-1987 EXD?

 

[RPI]

Not sure whether IETs are able to get up/down the Exeter Bank, plus you'd probably need more points from the West of England Line into Platforms 4, 5 & 6 at St Davids. There is Certainly room for more platforms though, if needed. Especially if you're willing to rebuild the platforms. But I think priority for Central is passenger capacity upgrade at Queen Street Entrance

IET's ascend the bank without issue, happens on a semi regular basis when services get diverted through Yeovil.

 

[devon_belle]

Re-instating one through road with scissors and then building a platform face for it in the remaining space could be an option. This would give 5 through platforms and 1 bay. Another bay may be useful if more Exmouth and Axminster services are ever needed (in the next century!). The space between the main platforms was wider than normal, which leaves plenty of room for a track and a platform between them.

The up platform originally fit more than 16 coaches. This was needed for splitting and joining trains which were regularly summed to 13 carriages. The longest I have seen on that line was 20 carriages on test trains for the Merchant Navy's haulage capacity. These days the up main has been shortened a bit, but given that the West of England is a 6-coach line it should still be possible to fit a 3 car and a 6 car either side of the scissors.

I'm not sure whether it would be more useful to have the extra platforms on the up or down side? I suppose that with suitable crossovers at the top of the bank the new centre platform could be bidirectional? Perhaps 4 through platforms (splitting the two current through platforms with through roads) would be preferable? The signalling and operations experts will know.

 

[Topological]

The scissors approach always feels sensible, but if the goal is to allow longer services to terminate then they would still need the full length of one platform.

Could the whole service be run with a terminating train in one platform and everything else using the section either side of the scissors on the other through platform?

I think the only challenge would be passing two SWR London trains (as these are often 6 car), but combinations of locals and Londons should work?

Cost wise, is there much difference between a scissors arrangement and a new platform? (As an outsider it should seem that the scissors would be far cheaper, but the numbers that get quoted for point work on here make me wonder)

 

[30907]

Some arrangement involving splitting platforms - or perhaps a reversing siding at the East end? - would make best sense.
However, how many terminating trains will there normally be once the North Devons are extended to Honiton? 1tph from the Taunton direction from GW's wish list?
I don't think this requires too complex a solution (and making it too complicated would ruin the business case....).

 

[RPI]

Some arrangement involving splitting platforms - or perhaps a reversing siding at the East end? - would make best sense.
However, how many terminating trains will there normally be once the North Devons are extended to Honiton? 1tph from the Taunton direction from GW's wish list?
I don't think this requires too complex a solution (and making it too complicated would ruin the business case....).

I'm not sure the Taunton ones will happen now that the government have pulled the plug on Cullompton and Wellington

 

[brad465]

I'm not sure the Taunton ones will happen now that the government have pulled the plug on Cullompton and Wellington

Cullompton's been pulled, but according to statement's made in the House of Commons by the Chancellor when questioned by the local MP (where false statements have serious consequences), Wellington is still going ahead. Whatever the case though I don't recall plans for those stations to be served by a service to/from Honiton, the talk was it would be Cardiff-Penzance/Taunton (extended to Exeter).

 

[takno]

I'm not sure the Taunton ones will happen now that the government have pulled the plug on Cullompton and Wellington

The BBC were reporting last night that the government had specifically said they still hoped to progress Cullompton and Wellington. There's no reason in principle why killing off Restoring your Railways should prevent relatively cheap openings of stations on existing lines.

 

[30907]

Cullompton's been pulled, but according to statement's made in the House of Commons by the Chancellor when questioned by the local MP (where false statements have serious consequences), Wellington is still going ahead. Whatever the case though I don't recall plans for those stations to be served by a service to/from Honiton, the talk was it would be Cardiff-Penzance/Taunton (extended to Exeter).

Correct. The Devon Metro would be Okehampton/Barnstaple-Honiton (Axminster has apparently - understandably - been dropped); anything from Taunton would terminate at St Davids or Central or continue West.

 

[RPI]

The BBC were reporting last night that the government had specifically said they still hoped to progress Cullompton and Wellington. There's no reason in principle why killing off Restoring your Railways should prevent relatively cheap openings of stations on existing lines.

That's good to hear, I'd seen a local news report that they were confirmed as cancelled.

 

[geoffk]

Correct. The Devon Metro would be Okehampton/Barnstaple-Honiton (Axminster has apparently - understandably - been dropped)

I didn't know Axminster had been dropped. Is that since the Government's recent policy announcements? I read that Cullompton is getting a new ROAD (a bypass costing £34m) which will allow 5,000 new homes, so perhaps the developer will be required to part-fund a station as well. I've wondered about changes at Central to allow more trains through and avoid the trundle up and down to Exmouth Junction to turn back (although that procedure allows stops at St. James Park on match days).

 

[snowball]

I didn't know Axminster had been dropped. Is that since the Government's recent policy announcements? I read that Cullompton is getting a new ROAD (a bypass costing £34m) which will allow 5,000 new homes, so perhaps the developer will be required to part-fund a station as well. I've wondered about changes at Central to allow more trains through and avoid the trundle up and down to Exmouth Junction to turn back (although that procedure allows stops at St. James Park on match days).

Cullompton is not happening according to the current issue of Rail. I posted about it yesterday in the new stations thread.

 

[takno]

Cullompton is not happening according to the current issue of Rail. I posted about it yesterday in the new stations thread.

Rail is about as reliable as a random post on here

 

[devon_belle]

Presumably Cullompton will eventually happen even if not in the current funding landscape. So still worth thinking about.

 

[30907]

I didn't know Axminster had been dropped. Is that since the Government's recent policy announcements?

Think I read it in the MR article on GW. The business case didn't stack up - additional infrastructure required, 11 miles with no intermediate traffic potential. Politically, Axminster is in Devon (but its hinterland isn't) so had to be considered.

 

[RPI]

Think I read it in the MR article on GW. The business case didn't stack up - additional infrastructure required, 11 miles with no intermediate traffic potential. Politically, Axminster is in Devon (but its hinterland isn't) so had to be considered.

Venturing into the Speculative discussion, but the talk of a new loop is now between Whimple and Feniton and I'd heard also that the Metro will mostly only go to Honiton, with some peak hour extensions to Axminster.

If this ever does happen then consideration should be given to running the Waterloo services fast from Exeter Central to Honiton (possibly calling at Cranbrook), the hourly local service could then serve the other stations, this would actually be an improvement for Whimple and Feniton who currently only get a two hourly service most of the day.

 

[30907]

If this ever does happen then consideration should be given to running the Waterloo services fast from Exeter Central to Honiton (possibly calling at Cranbrook), the hourly local service could then serve the other stations, this would actually be an improvement for Whimple and Feniton who currently only get a two hourly service most of the day.

Agreed, though I thought the Metro proposal was for a half-hourly service? Have I misremembered? (Looking at running times, perhaps I have, as I'm not sure Whimple-Pinhoe could manage 6tph?)

 

[RPI]

Agreed, though I thought the Metro proposal was for a half-hourly service? Have I misremembered? (Looking at running times, perhaps I have, as I'm not sure Whimple-Pinhoe could manage 6tph?)

Half hourly to Honiton, so hourly GWR hourly SWR

 

[Kite159]

Venturing into the Speculative discussion, but the talk of a new loop is now between Whimple and Feniton and I'd heard also that the Metro will mostly only go to Honiton, with some peak hour extensions to Axminster.

If this ever does happen then consideration should be given to running the Waterloo services fast from Exeter Central to Honiton (possibly calling at Cranbrook), the hourly local service could then serve the other stations, this would actually be an improvement for Whimple and Feniton who currently only get a two hourly service most of the day.

Agreed with SWR skipping Whimple & Feniton, although Pinhoe could possibly warrant 2tph. Although I suspect the usage figures might be inflated with split tickets.

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As for Exeter Central, a central platform (even if just a bay) would probably make sense for trains turning back from Barnstaple & Okehampton, would save time with staff ensuring nobody is on board for the ECS service.

 

[30907]

Half hourly to Honiton, so hourly GWR hourly SWR

Thanks, makes sense.

Agreed with SWR skipping Whimple & Feniton, although Pinhoe could possibly warrant 2tph. Although I suspect the usage figures might be inflated with split tickets.

-----

As for Exeter Central, a central platform (even if just a bay) would probably make sense for trains turning back from Barnstaple & Okehampton, would save time with staff ensuring nobody is on board for the ECS service.

Alternatively, turn back at Pinhoe, as was planned for a year or two ago IIRC? That will, of course, depend on how the timetable fits together.

 

[RPI]

Agreed with SWR skipping Whimple & Feniton, although Pinhoe could possibly warrant 2tph. Although I suspect the usage figures might be inflated with split tickets.

-----

As for Exeter Central, a central platform (even if just a bay) would probably make sense for trains turning back from Barnstaple & Okehampton, would save time with staff ensuring nobody is on board for the ECS service.

The cynic in me would suggest that Pinhoe's footfall is grossly overstated due to short offers! But we digress lol

 

[Kite159]

The cynic in me would suggest that Pinhoe's footfall is grossly overstated due to short offers! But we digress lol

All the pay when challenged passengers only buying from Pinhoe to avoid the full fare from Axminster/Honiton etc. Certainly compared to 10+ years ago Pinhoe seems to have got more busy, especially when it only used to be 2 hourly.

 

[takno]

The cynic in me would suggest that Pinhoe's footfall is grossly overstated due to short offers! But we digress lol

Might just be the trains I get (often at college kicking-out time), but Pinhoe seems to be pretty busy to me.

 

[Xavi]

The cynic in me would suggest that Pinhoe's footfall is grossly overstated due to short offers! But we digress lol

Definitely not the case. The usage has visibly grown for sometime with 1000s of new homes built nearby.

Might just be the trains I get (often at college kicking-out time), but Pinhoe seems to be pretty busy to me.

Good usage through the day in my experience. I agree the 0813 is very well used and always full and standing on arrival in term time.

All the pay when challenged passengers only buying from Pinhoe to avoid the full fare from Axminster/Honiton etc.

With barriers at Central and a penalty fare area such instances are rare, and a fare to Pinhoe is not much use for the return journey.

 

[Kite159]

With barriers at Central and a penalty fare area such instances are rare, and a fare to Pinhoe is not much use for the return journey

How often do the SWR RPIs make appearances in Devon, as those are the only ones which can issue penalty fares.

The guard can only do so much in terms of revenue