Possible strike action on NXEA

[yardman]

Hi guys,

I hear on the grapevine (NXEA website) that there might be some possible strike action by ASLEF and RMT over pay awards on the NXEA network.

Any truth to all this?

 

[driver9000]

Posted on ASLEF website 16 July.

30/31 July, 6/7 August, 13/14 August, 20/21 August are the dates for East Anglia.

 

[37401]

EMT are having one too

 

[driver9000]

EMT are having one too

the NW region of Northern is too.

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/114104/three_companies_notified_of_industrial_action/

as always these strikes may yet be called off so check with national rail or your local station for details.

 

[O L Leigh]

Hi guys,

I hear on the grapevine (NXEA website) that there might be some possible strike action by ASLEF and RMT over pay awards on the NXEA network.

Any truth to all this?

Why do they always latch onto the pay angle...? :-x

O L Leigh

 

[tony_mac]

obviously spin, but they aren't the only ones....

RMT ballots for strike action on pay at National Express East Anglia

Pay strike at East Midlands. ASLEF members working for East Midlands trains have voted overwhelmingly to take industrial action over the current pay dispute.

that's directly from the unions.

 

[yardman]

Why do they always latch onto the pay angle...? :-x

O L Leigh

Hope that wasnt referring back at me!!

 

[Metroland]

I don't think the unions will find there is much public support for big pay rises with the RPI near 0% and thousands being thrown on the jobs scrap heap each week, especially given the backdrop of expensive fares and a need to reduce the countries £800 billion (and rising) debt.

At times like this the unions ought to be showing a little sensitivity and get in the real world.

 

[delt1c]

Strange when unions try and improve their members conditions and pay they get shot down , and all the anti union bumf comes out. But when directors and shareholders get improved bonuses little is said. Goverment figures may show 0% inflation , but can you believe everything politicians say?
Instead of attacking unions we should be supporting them.
After all if it werent for them we would be living 8 to a small 2 up 2 down and being paid the minimum wage.

 

[Metroland]

But when directors and shareholders get improved bonuses little is said. Goverment figures may show 0% inflation , but can you believe everything politicians say?

That just isn't true, bonuses and profits are equally criticised. The RPI is compiled by the ONS which is not part of the government, but the civil service.

The BBC did a piece on salaries the other day.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8151355.stm

It stated: a salary of £44,881 is enough to get you in the top 10%, many train drivers even without overtime are on that sort of salary. So, so much for, 'The working man'. Get real, drivers are firmly middle class, and have lifestyles many can only dream of. Not bad for a non graduate job, the only other post I can think of where you can earn that sort of money for 1 years training is co-pilots.

Indeed, a gross annual salary of £58,917 gets you into the top 5%. Many drivers (with overtime) and Rail workers are in this bracket. Well good luck to them, but don't expect any sympathy from others, especially if they are teachers, nurses, or people that have spent years going through the education system. There is such a thing as union greed too.

 

[jon0844]

...when directors and shareholders get improved bonuses little is said.

Everything is said! The press never stop writing about company directors earning 'fat cat' bonuses!

But, the fact is, in tough times like these - pay rises are put on the back burner. In fact, many employers will use the argument (right or wrong) that you should be grateful to even HAVE a job. Many people are being forced to take pay cuts!

 

[delt1c]

Everything is said! The press never stop writing about company directors earning 'fat cat' bonuses!

But, the fact is, in tough times like these - pay rises are put on the back burner. In fact, many employers will use the argument (right or wrong) that you should be grateful to even HAVE a job. Many people are being forced to take pay cuts!

But companies will still look to improve net profit on the ballance sheet. Either screw suppliers or staff.
Remeber trade unions have fought in the past and will copntinue to fight in the future for the worker. Without unions managment would screw workers into the ground.
Union demands may seem excesive at times, but managment would give nothing if it werent for unions. Strange how when individuals have problems they suddenly join a union for representation..
Support your fellow worker.

 

[asylumxl]

I don't think it's the worker's causes which aggrivate people, it's the disruption they cause.

Striking at a car factory or a retailer wouldn't cause direct inconvinience for the general public. They're both businesses at the end of the day. I would say the rail network is primarily a service, and a business second, and cannot be treated as a business.

Striking is so disrespectful and inconsiderate towards the people who essentially keep them employed and support them. Rail staff and passengers alike would brand a suicide on the line as selfishness, yet industrial action is not considered selfish? Disruption for an individual or groups own self-gain?

Industrial action is just going to alienate the customers which support them.

 

[delt1c]

I don't think it's the worker's causes which aggrivate people, it's the disruption they cause.

Striking at a car factory or a retailer wouldn't cause direct inconvinience for the general public. They're both businesses at the end of the day. I would say the rail network is primarily a service, and a business second, and cannot be treated as a business.

Striking is so disrespectful and inconsiderate towards the people who essentially keep them employed and support them. Rail staff and passengers alike would brand a suicide on the line as selfishness, yet industrial action is not considered selfish? Disruption for an individual or groups own self-gain?

Industrial action is just going to alienate the customers which support them.

Then have you thought of blaming managment for being so stuborn or is it just easier to blame the unions?
[/

 

[Metroland]

But why are management to blame? Drivers are in the top 10% of earners, they have good pensions and working conditions, a safe and secure job. Many people simply look at the facts and ask themselves why they are being held to ransom when they want to travel over a cause that is weak at best. It's hardly Victorian England when kids were sent up chimneys and Cambrian Signalmen used to work 34 hour shifts. Most people support action to combat those problems.

However, there will be people inconvenienced that cannot get to job interviews that have recently been made unemployed during this action. If the Driver had poor conditions, or there was some sort of injustice, most people would support action, I know I would. Regular readers will know my posts are hardly 'ultra right wing', but what worries me is someone has to pay for this.

Leaving that aside, I have paid £88 to travel on Friday to the Midlands, only to now find ASLEF have pulled a strike on the MML. I don't suppose anyone will come and apologise, not the train company, union or the people involved. We're just expected to put up with it!

If management are being stubborn, I would suggest this is because money needs to be saved, probably because of softening revenues. In the real world, other companies would be driven into bankruptcy and everyone would lose their jobs. In the 1970s when we had beer and sandwiches at No 10, because of powerful unions, the whole country was nearly driven into bankruptcy. The left wing have never quite recovered from this and doesn't do the case of people that really do need defending any justice.

 

[Ferret]

Metroland, what about all the other grades? Guards, cleaners, ticket office staff?

It's all well bleating about drivers being in the top pay bracket (jealousy?) but not everybody is a driver....

 

[Metroland]

Well even some of those aren't on a bad wage, but I'm talking about these strikes:

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/114104/three_companies_notified_of_industrial_action/

If these jobs were part of an open market, someone would walk in and do the job, and the strikers would be down the road, especially in this economic climate. In the real world, falling revenues mean job losses, reduction in pay and downsizing. For some reason some people think they have an automatic right to a continuous rise in the standard of living - when most people are not going to get any sort of a rise in the standard of living for at least 5 years. Well that's fine, but don't expect the government to keep putting in investment or people to keep travelling. When that happens, these workers are in very serious trouble and the railway is in trouble - its the latter that worries me.

 

[Ferret]

Well, maybe when directors are forced to have their outlandish pay and bonuses cut, maybe the Unions will sympathise a little.

Why should working class people pay the price for the incompetence of management?! The suggestion that nobody saw this recession coming is a red herring - read your history books! They do have a tendency to come about every so often!!!!

The fact is managers in all the rail companies thought growth would continue forever and budgeted accordingly. Instead, they've screwed the pooch but yet expect employees to suffer while they still award themselves large wads of unearned cash. It's wrong.

End of rant

 

[Metroland]

As far as I know East Midlands trains managers, for example, are having a pay freeze as are National express. Network Rail, well that's a different matter.

I expected you to rant, you can rant all you like. You don't give a stuff about me paying £88 for a now disrupted service. If you had paid £88 and got crap service, I suspect you might feel different. Why are passengers expected to suffer, what right have you got to disrupt me? I'm daft, I might choose to travel in future, but some people might well say enough is enough.

As for working class, drivers ain't working class on £38-60k per year. I have a friend that has gone to Cambridge university and is aiming to earn £50k per year, I have other friends that have gone to university and would be happy on £30k a year, this is despite getting into £30k or more worth of debt for the privilege. Sorry, none of the pleading poverty from the poor hard done by driver works, its a good wage and the unions are milking the system and this is the number one reason railways will never quite fulfil their potential.

 

[daccer]

There are of course two sides to every story and I am sure management and the unions would argue that the other side are to blame. I have a couple of points to make. I worked for BR in the 80's and found the unionisation of the railways to be complete with ridiculous protection in place for working conditions and a job for life especially for driver grades. I think the unions are an anachonism from the past and that their roles have largely been overtaken by various govt bodies who now supervise health and safety at work and conditions in general. Employees also now have many means to protect themselves via legal action and most employers are now very careful to protect themselves by treating staff properly in this litigous world.

The railways are for want of a better word 'privatised'. They operate in a commercial way and although they offer a much needed service they are not immune to commercial pressure - NXEC can testify to that. So the point I am really trying to get to is this - from the very top of NR with their ridiculous donuses to the lowliest pay grade at a TOC noone now has a job for life and noone is now immune from public opinion. The drivers are probably as militant a group of workers left in the UK now the miners have been decimated. I believe EWS blamed a lot of their problems on the terms and conditions they inherited from BR whereas the newer FOC'S didnt have this and so seem to make more money. There will be a huge public backlash against strikes on the railways and everyone from the CEO's down will ultimately be the poorer for it. Are the drivers being greedy, who knows, but what is not in doubt is that if these TOC's were run as a proper private company strikes would not be tolerated by management and the staff would never consider striking when the country is deep in recession. This reflects well on nobody and just shows how far the railways still have to come before they can truly be considered first world never mind world class.

 

[turbo mick]

Ive been a member of aslef for over 15yrs no body ever wants to go on strike its the last resort when management brakes every rule.

and people that think we get paid to much .spend a day with a driver and the crap we have to deal with getting up 4am to do 10hr shifts no automatics all manual driving at speeds up to 125mph and they try to take away all our conditions of service.


remember the tories distroyed the railways when we went private away from BR

 

[Ferret]

Glad I'm so predictable!!!

Well, as a Union member myself, I must say that strike action should only be a last resort. I'd much rather settlements were negotiated because nobody gains from strike action as you've legitimately pointed out.

I never said drivers were poor, and at the risk of repeating myself from a previous thread - they work damn antisocial hours and should be rewarded for that.

Addressing the university issue - why do graduates feel that because they have a bit of paper that says they regurgitated some facts in an exam for 3 years mean they are entitled to a huge salary. I could argue that these theory-merchants with no first hand experience of the world have been responsible for some of these ridiculous franchise bids by the likes of NatEx that have caused the current ills of the railways!!!

 

[asylumxl]

Ive been a member of aslef for over 15yrs no body ever wants to go on strike its the last resort when management brakes every rule.

and people that think we get paid to much .spend a day with a driver and the crap we have to deal with getting up 4am to do 10hr shifts no automatics all manual driving at speeds up to 125mph and they try to take away all our conditions of service.


remember the tories distroyed the railways when we went private away from BR

And striking really helps the railways, the same way it helped the miners.

Management doesn't care about disruption to the passenger and it's unfair for the dissatisfaction of the drivers to be taken out on the public.

 

[The North Briton]

Typical Natex reason (excuse) for not awarding a pay rise - RPI =0. But RPI measures the price of a wide variety of commodities, many of which we do not need to buy regularly, if at all. The prices of fuel, energy, council tax, water rates etc etc continue to rise. Yes, we are lucky to have a job, but Natex have already shed many jobs in their rail businesses and managed to make a respectable profit last year, so why withhold even a tithe of it from their workforce.
By the way, I do not work for NXEA, nor am I a driver. I'm a manager who earns three quarters of a driver's salary but I don't begrudge them a penny of it.

 

[Metroland]

I never said drivers were poor, and at the risk of repeating myself from a previous thread - they work damn antisocial hours and should be rewarded for that.

So do a lot of people, on and off the railways. There are 9 million shift workers.

Addressing the university issue - why do graduates feel that because they have a bit of paper that says they regurgitated some facts in an exam for 3 years mean they are entitled to a huge salary. I could argue that these theory-merchants with no first hand experience of the world have been responsible for some of these ridiculous franchise bids by the likes of NatEx that have caused the current ills of the railways!!!

Well some graduates do degrees that don't have good earnings potential. It's all about the skills you have and what the market will stand. If the railways are commercial, they they should work within private sector frameworks. Which means, skills, productivity and markets are the main drivers for reward.

I suspect the fact is, they are not truly commercial, and this is why we have annual pay demands. Also drivers jobs are a closed market, unlike most other transport workers. If the railways are to operate truly commercially that market will have to be opened up - which isn't very easy - or we need an independent arbiter of pay demands. In my view, all vital workers need their pay setting like this if the market isn't truly commercial and open. The police already have such a system. If the unions keep holding customers to ransom, the railways will never be able to compete effectively in the transport market, especially for freight.

 

[Ferret]

I could wander seriously off topic here and ask why you'd go to uni to study something which would lead to low earnings but then we both know the answer - it's the easy option. Anyway, to avoid me blowing a gasket with a monumental rant the like of which would put Victor Meldrew to shame, I'll return to the point at hand!!!

How would this independent body be funded? By the taxpayer I presume - so they'd never be truly independent of the Government meaning we'd get 0.5% every year. Remember, the taxpayer still pays our wages in a way through the subsidies that the TOCs receive....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another point. Why are wages focused on as such an issue? What proportion of a TOCs overheads do wages form? Bet it aint as much as the leasing costs for rolling stock which are ludicrous!!! Ah, but then you remember who owns the leasing companies and then you think of all those bankers (or a word that rhymes) who need their 5 and 6 figure bonuses paying and then you understand why there isn't a similar clamour for those costs to be driven down..........

 

[Metroland]

Well quite so. If the government pulled the plug tomorrow, nearly the whole of the rail network would close tomorrow. The point for government though, is the rising cost of the railways - for which there are many reasons, not just pay demands. So, there needs to be some way to control excessive costs if markets are not truly operating. And I'm not just having a go at staff, this is aimed at big bonus managers and scrounging private companies.

While you may feel there is no need,,come the next budget review, expect transport to get a hammering. And, unless costs are reduced, expect the government to consider more draconian actions - such as network reduction, pulling enhancement schemes, banning strikes, thinning out services and putting up fares massively, breaking up and selling off Network rail.

I understand the Tories are currently in Canada looking how they cut public budgets 40% so that country didn't go bankrupt, so watch this space.

 

[Phoenix]

If NXEA do the 20/21 of August I shall be extremly P*ssed as I need to catch the dutch flyer from Harwich seriously do people actually think about it before they strike

 

[Ferret]

I agree savings need to be made but upsetting the workforce aint the way. You rightly say that if the Government pull the plug tomorrow, the whole railway grinds to a halt. Well, I've got more news for you; it also runs on a significant amount of goodwill. Take that away and it's equally screwed...

 

[Metroland]

Yes, mainly goodwill from customers like me.