Potential Bidders for the next Greater Western franchise

[HH]

The Integreated Kent Franchise was awarded before the other franchises though.

Sigh. As I explained all the Franchises are decided weeks before the announcements. Then there is a period when details of the final agreement are hammered out, e.g. there will be a number of priced options that the DfT will look to negotiate on.

I cannot recall the order of the official announcements, but we knew we had won both FCC & FGW before the SE announcement was made.

 

[Zoe]

having been involved in the evaluation process I can assure you the evaluators know every single bidders' bid

Well they may well be able to conclude who the bids are from but do they actually have the names on them? Also when I was told that while it may have been different under the SRA. These days the people making the decision do not know who the bidders are. If this is not the case then it's about time the myth was ended.

 

[HH]

But as the Integrated Kent franchise was awarded earlier in the year it can't have been the result of the announcement to award the other two to First that prevented First getting it.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.

 

[Zoe]

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.

No it is not, if you do not believe me then go and look up the dates. Integrated Kent was at the end of November, the other two were in December.

 

[HH]

IKF was awarded 30/11/05. FCC dates from December 2005. We knew well before the end of November.

 

[Zoe]

IKF was awarded 30/11/05. FCC dates from December 2005. We knew well before the end of November.

But the December announcement would have made no difference on any decision with Integrated Kent franchise as this has already been announced.

 

[tbtc]

I seem to remember quite a few people expecting GNER to win the SouthEastern franchise

I seem to remember a lot of people assuring me that Virgin wouldn't win the next West Coast franchise (due to relations with the DfT/ Government). That's all gone very quiet though...

A lot of people become experts after the event

 

[HH]

But the December announcement would have made no difference on any decision with Integrated Kent franchise as this has already been announced.

You're getting confused. While the announcement for SE might have been made before FCC, the DECISION was the other way round.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I seem to remember a lot of people assuring me that Virgin wouldn't win the next West Coast franchise (due to relations with the DfT/ Government). That's all gone very quiet though...

A lot of people become experts after the event

Anyone saying they will win it? I'd say their chances are about equal to other bidders.

They have the advantage of knowing more about the franchise than other bidders. They also have the disadvantage of knowing more about the franchise than other bidders.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well they may well be able to conclude who the bids are from but do they actually have the names on them? Also when I was told that while it may have been different under the SRA. These days the people making the decision do not know who the bidders are. If this is not the case then it's about time the myth was ended.

Quote from ICWC ITT:

Hard copies should be contained in ring binders suitably segregated into the number of
sets required. Bidders should clearly identify the part and copy number (e.g. Part 1 copy 1,
copy 2, copy 3) and each ring binder must be labelled clearly with the volume name, copy
number, the Bidder's name and an index of the contents of the binder.

The bid (minus financials) also goes to Network Rail, and has to be discussed between the bidders and various stakeholders (eg Passenger Focus).

 

[Zoe]

the Bidder's name and an index of the contents of the binder..

The question here though is if the people that make the decision actually get to see this name though?

 

[bnm]

Another news outlet is claiming that there are ten potential operators who have submitted pre-qualification questionnaires for the Greater Western franchise.

From the Bristol Evening Post:

A rail insider, who asked not to be named, told the Evening Post they had seen a list of all the companies to have shown expressions of interest.
<snip>
The Department for Transport will not officially reveal the names until later on in the bidding process.

But the Post understands that, aside from First, the list includes Virgin; National Express; Arriva, French rail operator Keolis, which is owned by SNCF; Dutch operator Abellio (formerly NedRailways); Go-Ahead; the Spanish state railway RENFE; Hong Kong based MTR and Serco. RENFE is the only company that does not already operate some form of rail service in the UK.

All seem perfectly possible as potential bidders except Virgin. Not sure they have any interest in local services. This list also omits Stagecoach.

Smoke and mirrors for a few weeks until the ITT....

 

[Starfish Prime]

I´m Spanish and I´m more than surprised to find Renfe in the list. Renfe conventional services (non High Speed) are below par. I don´t see current Renfe Management running the UK complex services.

The AVE network service is fantastic, but basically because is an isolated network.

 

[313103]

From what i have read on here since my last post. It all seems like its a phony war being carried to deceive the General Public into beleiving somethimg real is happening. When in reality everyone apart from the General Public knows weeks and possibly months in advance of who is going to run services. Sham really.

 

[WatcherZero]

I seem to remember a lot of people assuring me that Virgin wouldn't win the next West Coast franchise (due to relations with the DfT/ Government). That's all gone very quiet though...

A lot of people become experts after the event

Tbh a lot of people thought they wouldnt get the extension because of the antagonistic relationship but they managed to agree a deal to introduce the extra stock and avoid a switchover during the olympic period, even though the Government had threatened to bring in DOR to operate it.

 

[sprinterguy]

(Side note: do the voyagers still have red roofs like Virgin ones and XC have just stopped cleaning them?

There's a strip of brown vinyl (officially termed "warm black") that stretches up above cantrail level but yes the better part of the roof of XCs' Voyagers remains red. Although it can sometimes be difficult to tell as the colour is usually covered with exhaust stains.

I know that I've come to this discussion quite late, but personally I would like to see First retaining the Great Western franchise. After a poor start, I think that they've really turned things around and are now quite a capable operator. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Schnellzug]

Quote from ICWC ITT:

Hard copies should be contained in ring binders suitably segregated into the number of
sets required. Bidders should clearly identify the part and copy number (e.g. Part 1 copy 1,
copy 2, copy 3) and each ring binder must be labelled clearly with the volume name, copy
number, the Bidder's name and an index of the contents of the binder.

The bid (minus financials) also goes to Network Rail, and has to be discussed between the bidders and various stakeholders (eg Passenger Focus).

Do they specify what colour the ring binders should be? Would My Little Pony ones do? Is it like an exam where you get a mark for spelling your name right?

 

[deltic]

The question here though is if the people that make the decision actually get to see this name though?

yes they do
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I´m Spanish and I´m more than surprised to find Renfe in the list. Renfe conventional services (non High Speed) are below par. I don´t see current Renfe Management running the UK complex services.

The AVE network service is fantastic, but basically because is an isolated network.

I'm led to believe Renfe's commuter services are good with high levels of punctuality - any idea if this is correct?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do they specify what colour the ring binders should be? Would My Little Pony ones do? Is it like an exam where you get a mark for spelling your name right?

no but they specify almost everything else from font size to page numbers to the size of the margins!

Being able to write good English helps, you will be surprised how many bidders can not.

 

[CC 72100]

I'd like to see First retain the franchise. My experiences of their operations down here in Devon have always been good, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Although, I do wish they wouldn't use 150/1s on some Weymouth - Gloucester services, at least 150/2 please! :P

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do they specify what colour the ring binders should be? Would My Little Pony ones do? Is it like an exam where you get a mark for spelling your name right?

I know from experience (not in rail) that if you get one simple thing wrong it can disqualify you.
Some of it is so that it makes live easier for DfT to process.

Anyway I expect all Virgin bids this year will have a picture of Usain Bolt on the front...

 

[34D]

I've read all eight pages of this thread..... Instead of asking "who should run the greater western franchise" the question should really be:

There is a team of people from senior management down to front-line staff who work on the greater western franchise, all of whose jobs are protected under TUPE. Which company would you like them to pay approx 20% profit to? This company will also choose the exterior livery.

 

[Nym]

First's "Boring Purple/Blue" livery looks nice on most of their fleet... Now they seem to have dropped the childish expensive dramatic lines stuff... I'll go with them, that or Sea Containers..?

Maybe Stobart Group, green might look nice on an HST

 

[Eagle]

Green might look nice on an HST

Agreed :P

 

[swt_passenger]

Which company would you like them to pay approx 20% profit to?

20% profit?

Show us your evidence for that...

 

[charlee]

Virgin operating local services in Cornwall and Devon, that would be an interesting deleveopment if it happened. The only thing i have agaianst first is the trains and the amount of space you have in the carriage, you feel cramped and unable to move. Not nice! im 6ft and i actually cant bend down to grab something i dropped on the floor, without great struggle.

Virgin Express i like it!

I did have a dream in the past week (sad i know), that the DfT came out and annouced that services west of Plymouth would be a new franchise and they ran Penzance to Plymouth shuttles as well as branches. Cornish Rail, and had black and white livery like the flag. So wierd i know, and comepletely of topic.

 

[Michael.Y]

It would surely also have Cornish Gold in it...

The Cornish word for railways is hynsyow–horn

 

[charlee]

It would surely also have Cornish Gold in it...

The Cornish word for railways is hynsyow–horn

Ha yes! Also take away the London service from cornwall and we would have a revolution on our hands lol

 

[Schnellzug]

I did have a dream in the past week (sad i know), that the DfT came out and annouced that services west of Plymouth would be a new franchise and they ran Penzance to Plymouth shuttles as well as branches. Cornish Rail, and had black and white livery like the flag. So wierd i know, and comepletely of topic.

I've never been really convinced of the philosophy that everything in one area needs to be lumped together in one franchise. They may say that services can be integrated and what have you, but the London services have really always been quite distinct from the branch lines, haven't they, on any railway. I'd quite be in favour of having one operator to look after the branch lines west of Exeter, feeding into the main line services run by FGW, on perhaps a "community railway" basis, with local management and dedicated stock, and with much lower overheads than being owned by a massive PLC, and able to make decisions on a local level. Although that doesn't mean that I don't think FGW have done a reasonable job with what the Government has allowed them to have.

 

[charlee]

I've never been really convinced of the philosophy that everything in one area needs to be lumped together in one franchise. They may say that services can be integrated and what have you, but the London services have really always been quite distinct from the branch lines, haven't they, on any railway. I'd quite be in favour of having one operator to look after the branch lines west of Exeter, feeding into the main line services run by FGW, on perhaps a "community railway" basis, with local management and dedicated stock, and with much lower overheads than being owned by a massive PLC, and able to make decisions on a local level. Although that doesn't mean that I don't think FGW have done a reasonable job with what the Government has allowed them to have.

I agree and this is why i dont understand why they merged the Wessex and Greater Western Franchise! I was always against that, but hey ho they thought it was a good idea.
I really think they should re-split the franchises. Let first concentrate on improving and creating a good main line London service. And let another operator manage the branch lines. One goo thing is first did try and get branch lines to emrge with Main line timetables.

 

[Uzair]

I thought First said they wouldn't bid for the franchise again?

Stagecoach would be a worthy bidder for the GW franchise.They've done a pretty good job with SWT and EMT.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought First said they wouldn't bid for the franchise again?

No, all First ever did was turn down the three year extension option. They immediately said they'd be bidding for the replacement franchise.