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Pre-nationalization diesel (or petrol!) railcars/sets

Strathclyder

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My fascination with this subject has been stoked by the 3-car articulated set the LMS outshopped from Derby Works in early 1938 and which saw brief service use in 1939 (image below) and I thought I'd start a thread covering all known examples of diesel/petrol-powered railcars whose conception and trials pre-dated BR. The GWR railcars are perhaps the most well-known examples of this and are of course most welcome.

250578.jpg

Over to you. :)
 
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Rescars

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Although far from glamorous, here must surely be a place here for Col Stephens' varied selection of railcars - Shefflex, Drewry, etc.
 

Rescars

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AIUI the first vehicle on the list should be the NER's petrol electric Autocar which was built in 1903 - and which has been fully restored to working order.
 
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Taunton

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The general development of such rail cars followed the road HGV industry developments. The GWR had a particular association with the AEC company, mainstream truck and bus builders, whose factory coincidentally was alongside the GWML at Southall, with private sidings. The 1930s streamlined diesel cars came when road lorries began to change from petrol to diesel, and the gearchange was a new AEC proprietary type called preselector, avoiding a clutch. Bear in mind the railway had large fleets of lorries for freight collection and delivery, with some having significant local bus fleets as well, and would have fitters competent in these mechanical parts all around. The railcars were fully seated, as the engines underfloor were horizontally mounted. This is not as easy as it sounds, with issues like lubrication, but again was an AEC development and used on buses. Vacuum brakes were the same as on buses and lorries of the era.

The LMS developed their cars, strangely, on their Northern Ireland offshoot, the NCC, likewise in conjunction with Leyland Motors, factory on the WCML The engines were vertical, and the gearbox was automatic, out of the 1930s Leyland "gearless" vehicles. The set in the opening picture was a further development, with six engines. It wasn't as reliable as the GWR cars, and spent long periods out of service. When running it was commonly on the Oxford to Cambridge line.

The greatest engineering challenge was the remote operation of further cars when running in multiple. Even with driving controls at both ends of a single car, being able to use one or the other was an issue. Further, both the (pictured) LMS train and the last four GWR cars were formed with a converted hauled coach into two 3-car sets, with the need to control remote engines in the opposite end car for direction and power. This took into the 1950s, and the first BR cars, to achieve. The very first Derby cars, the "Red Triangle" type, had the lightweight bodywork but the mechanical drivetrain of the LMS unit. This was unfortunate as not only were the Leyland parts effectively obsolete, but the pre-war "gearless" transmission was regarded as a failure. Goodness knows what early BR politics led to the choice, but after the 8 pioneer sets were produced the mechanical bits were changed to the AEC type all round, and on they went with thousands of them. Doubtless Swindon smiled - just a bit!

The two old GWR 3-car sets didn't have it all their own way. One of the cars was burnt out in 1947, but a replacement with just one driving cab was later fashioned out of one of the single cars. Then a few years later the other 3-car unit was completely destroyed by fire, end to end, on the outskirts of Bristol. A couple of the single cars went the same way, I've seen a picture of one blazing on what is now the Severn Valley line at Bridgnorth. Meanwhile we, in our early enthusiasm, used to see the remaining "multiple unit", cars 33 and 38, arrive at Bristol Temple Meads on Saturday afternoons in 1961-62, from Bath and I think down the Weymouth line. It was still in red and cream livery.
 

Rescars

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Following Taunton's comments about the general development of such rail cars following the road HGV industry developments, perhaps we should also include the LMS's experiments with the Karrier Ro-Railer in 1931. A brave attempt to combine bus and rail technology which aimed to provide a through service to the Welcombe Hotel in Stratford upon Avon without bothering with the complexities of a direct rail connection!
 
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norbitonflyer

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The GWR had a particular association with the AEC company, mainstream truck and bus builders, whose factory coincidentally was alongside the GWML at Southall, with private sidings. The 1930s streamlined diesel cars came when road lorries began to change from petrol to diesel, and the gearchange was a new AEC proprietary type called preselector, avoiding a clutch.

The greatest engineering challenge was the remote operation of further cars when running in multiple. Even with driving controls at both ends of a single car, being able to use one or the other was an issue.
AEC (Associated Equipment Company) was a subsidiary of London Transport. A remote gearchange was a development of interest to both LT and the GWR - the GWR wanted to be able to drive a railcar from either end, LT simply wanted to have the oily bits moved from beside the driver so that the passenger entrance could be there instead - as first seen in LT's Q-type, where the engine was under the stairs.
i00003pw.jpg
 

Dr Hoo

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The OP may enjoy looking at LMS Diesel Locomotives and Railcars by E V Richards, RCTS 1996. Although mainly about shunting locos and the famous 10000/10001 duo there are over 30 pages on 'Railcars'.
 

ac6000cw

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Similar things going on in the rest of the world...such as in Italy
*An illustrated history of Italian Railcars*
In the USA, various companies including McKeen, GE, Brill and EMC (which became EMD after GM bought it in 1930) produced petrol and/or diesel powered railcars from early in the 20th century (McKeen from 1907, GE 1910, EMC 1923 and Brill 1924). Brill alone built almost 300, with some exported to other countries like Australia. Some railcars were powerful enough to haul one or two unpowered trailer cars, and AFAIK generally the engines were above floor level and used electric transmission. Generally used on branch and secondary routes to reduce operating costs for passenger, mail and parcels traffic. Railcars were also known as 'Doodlebugs' in the US.
 

Taunton

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I'm afraid the further commentary provided in that link is somewhat wide of the mark. Michelin produced quite a number of rubber-tyred railcars in France in the 1930s, and even some in the USA in association with Budd, and they lasted in France until postwar times. They were marginally useful, one problem was their susceptibility to derail.

The disdain about an electric version being "impossible" is definitely wrong, as such a Michelin unit was produced pre-war for a Paris suburban line, using for current return exactly the approach later used on the rubber-tyred Paris Metro, of skids along the rails. The Michelin cars can be seen as a prototype for the "pneu" on the Metro, it was realised that running rubber tyres on existing rails was the big issue, so the separate trackways, whilst not doing away with the rails, was developed. Obviously more practical on a Metro line than the mainstream railway.
 

Strathclyder

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The OP may enjoy looking at LMS Diesel Locomotives and Railcars by E V Richards, RCTS 1996. Although mainly about shunting locos and the famous 10000/10001 duo there are over 30 pages on 'Railcars'.
I saw that book crop up a few times when researching the LMS diesel railcar experiments, I may pick a copy up in the near future. Thanks for the recomendation either way. :)
 

GC class B1

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I was involved with the restoration of what I believe was the first non steam railcar in Britain. The 1903 NER Autocar body was found in use as a home and using the underframe from a vehicle of a similar vintage was restored to as near as possible original condition with the help of Heritage lottery funding. The original vehicle had a petrol engine and one motored and one trailer Fox bogies. The vehicle was re-engined more than once and finally had a diesel engine. The restored vehicle had a BR southern region Mk 4 motor bogie in place of the Fox motor bogie as this couldn't be sourced and a compliant Cummins generator set with HST derivative traction control and a modern two pipe air brake system. The photos below show the restored NER railcard on its official launch on the Embsay and Bolton Abbey railway in 2018.

IMG_0239.jpeg
 

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WesternLancer

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Having ridden on it when it visited the GCR I can say it is superb. Worth a trip to see it.
 

The Crab

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The general development of such rail cars followed the road HGV industry developments. The GWR had a particular association with the AEC company, mainstream truck and bus builders, whose factory coincidentally was alongside the GWML at Southall, with private sidings. The 1930s streamlined diesel cars came when road lorries began to change from petrol to diesel, and the gearchange was a new AEC proprietary type called preselector, avoiding a clutch. Bear in mind the railway had large fleets of lorries for freight collection and delivery, with some having significant local bus fleets as well, and would have fitters competent in these mechanical parts all around. The railcars were fully seated, as the engines underfloor were horizontally mounted. This is not as easy as it sounds, with issues like lubrication, but again was an AEC development and used on buses. Vacuum brakes were the same as on buses and lorries of the era.

The LMS developed their cars, strangely, on their Northern Ireland offshoot, the NCC, likewise in conjunction with Leyland Motors, factory on the WCML The engines were vertical, and the gearbox was automatic, out of the 1930s Leyland "gearless" vehicles. The set in the opening picture was a further development, with six engines. It wasn't as reliable as the GWR cars, and spent long periods out of service. When running it was commonly on the Oxford to Cambridge line.

The greatest engineering challenge was the remote operation of further cars when running in multiple. Even with driving controls at both ends of a single car, being able to use one or the other was an issue. Further, both the (pictured) LMS train and the last four GWR cars were formed with a converted hauled coach into two 3-car sets, with the need to control remote engines in the opposite end car for direction and power. This took into the 1950s, and the first BR cars, to achieve. The very first Derby cars, the "Red Triangle" type, had the lightweight bodywork but the mechanical drivetrain of the LMS unit. This was unfortunate as not only were the Leyland parts effectively obsolete, but the pre-war "gearless" transmission was regarded as a failure. Goodness knows what early BR politics led to the choice, but after the 8 pioneer sets were produced the mechanical bits were changed to the AEC type all round, and on they went with thousands of them. Doubtless Swindon smiled - just a bit!

The two old GWR 3-car sets didn't have it all their own way. One of the cars was burnt out in 1947, but a replacement with just one driving cab was later fashioned out of one of the single cars. Then a few years later the other 3-car unit was completely destroyed by fire, end to end, on the outskirts of Bristol. A couple of the single cars went the same way, I've seen a picture of one blazing on what is now the Severn Valley line at Bridgnorth. Meanwhile we, in our early enthusiasm, used to see the remaining "multiple unit", cars 33 and 38, arrive at Bristol Temple Meads on Saturday afternoons in 1961-62, from Bath and I think down the Weymouth line. It was still in red and cream livery.
Thank you, very interesting.
 

matchmaker

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Although not UK, the diesel railcars used on the West Clare Railways surely require an honourable mention. This was entirely diesel operated from the early 1950s - both railcars and locomotives. If you can track it down, there is a wonderful book "The Irish Narrow Gauge in Colour" by Norman Johnston, published by Colourpoint in 2003. Well worth searching for.
 

Taunton

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Is that the same as the Donegal narrow gauge network or something different?
The West Clare diesel cars were the same as the later Donegal ones (including the one which ended up on the Isle of Man), except painted drab green instead of red/cream, but their small network is much further south, near Limerick. These cars, and further ones for Ireland and overseas, were built by Walker Bros of Wigan. Unknown in the UK as a full manufacturer, they did a lot of subassembly and contract work - including designing the Yellow Diamond/Blue Square multiple unit control systems for the BR Modernisation Plan dmus
 

32475

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Similar things going on in the rest of the world...such as in Italy
*An illustrated history of Italian Railcars*
Thanks Mr SW. What a wonderful website that is including the various other links not least the one about Trans Europ Express
 

Mr. SW

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You're Welcome @32475.

But you can see there were several hundred of these railcars built, compared to the mere handful in Britain at the time.
 

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