Preferences on track pairing

[Sad Sprinter]

There's been a number of threads over whether having four tracks paired by use (Up Fast, Down Fast, Up slow, down slow) or direction (Up Slow, Up Fast, Down Fast, Down Slow), is better operationally. But I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on which track pairing is better from a pure enthusiast perspective.

I think growing up on the Brighton, I've got used to PBU. It also allows you to get a bit closer to the fast trains if there are four platforms, instead of seeing them pass through the middle. I find PBU stations a bit dull, because they're usually just two long, similarly looking platforms. PBU stations tend to have more station buildings as there is of course an island platform. I don't think there are many PBD routes that feature two island platforms. Wimbledon, New Cross Gate, New Barnet and Turnham Green are the ones I can easily think of.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

But I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on which track pairing is better from a pure enthusiast perspective.

Personal preference, but would probably go with up slow, up fast, down fast, down slow.

 

[zwk500]

There's been a number of threads over whether having four tracks paired by use or direction, is better operationally. But I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on which track pairing is better from a pure enthusiast perspective.

It really depends on what you want to see/photo/video. And quite a lot on the different vantage points.

It also allows you to get a bit closer to the fast trains if there are four platforms, instead of seeing them pass through the middle.

There are a number of PBD stations with platforms on fast lines, and many PBU stations where the fast line platforms are gated off.

PBU stations tend to have more station buildings as there is of course an island platform. I don't think there are many PBD routes that feature two island platforms. Wimbledon, New Cross Gate, New Barnet and Turnham Green are the ones I can easily think of.

Stevenage for sure. There may be quibble about Norwood Jn and Finsbury Park. Southampton Central is a bit of a cheat but the Fast Lines are on the outside with an island for the slows in the middle. You also have Woking and Basingstoke with Islands between the central Fast Lines.

 

[Northumbriana]

Personal preference, but would probably go with up slow, up fast, down fast, down slow.

Mine too. Easy for trains to switch from fast to slow track to let another train past. And cross platform interchange (assuming island platforms) so passengers can change onto a faster train or a local train which calls at their stop. Difficult for branches though if the fast tracks need access.

 

[PGAT]

Not a huge fan of fast lines in the centre in my opinion. It just looks kind of ugly having a huge gap between the platforms at some stations

 

[swt_passenger]

Mine too. Easy for trains to switch from fast to slow track to let another train past. And cross platform interchange (assuming island platforms) so passengers can change onto a faster train or a local train which calls at their stop. Difficult for branches though if the fast tracks need access.

I don’t think that was the question though, the OP‘s first sentence is highlighting that we’ve already discussed the operational benefits a few times.

 

[Topological]

Having grown up with PBU, PBD appeals. The arrangement at somewhere like Nuneaton is very good (not that that many fasts stop).

Although this thread is not about operation, PBD has the advantage a fast in the middle can move onto its neighbouring slow to diverge. A flying junction from one side to the other then avoids all conflicts with just 1 bridge. I do like to think about what can be done to make things better in a hypothetical world when waiting for delayed trains in reality.

 

[Danfilm007]

Having grown up with PBU, PBD appeals. The arrangement at somewhere like Nuneaton is very good (not that that many fasts stop).

Although this thread is not about operation, PBD has the advantage a fast in the middle can move onto its neighbouring slow to diverge. A flying junction from one side to the other then avoids all conflicts with just 1 bridge. I do like to think about what can be done to make things better in a hypothetical world when waiting for delayed trains in reality.

What are PBU and PBD?

 

[swt_passenger]

What are PBU and PBD?

Paired by use, (eg GWML Paddington to Didcot u/d/u/d), paired by direction, (eg SWML Wimbledon to Basingstoke u/u/d/d).

 

[Danfilm007]

Paired by use, (eg GWML Paddington to Didcot u/d/u/d), paired by direction, (eg SWML Wimbledon to Basingstoke u/u/d/d).

Thank you!

 

[Flange Squeal]

Personal preference, but would probably go with up slow, up fast, down fast, down slow.

Likewise - my personal preference is 'paired by direction'. As a younger enthusiast I found it made watching trains/photography easier as, with typical stations only having a platform on each of the outer slow lines only, you can get unobstructed views of trains on three of the four lines from any given position (subject to another train getting in the way!). 'Paired by use' lines you've always got a platform face, people and station clutter in the way where two islands exist, or where you have two outer platforms and a single island platform in the middle then that middle platform obstructs your view across all four lines.

From a personal point of view, I also find the stations just look neater on 'paired by direction' lines, particularly at typical stations with only slow line outer platforms with all four tracks parallel to each other and often without any unnecessary curves to get round island platforms (except at busier locations where maybe an island platform does - or used to - exist between the fast lines). 'Paired by use' stations with island platforms can also feel particularly busy at times when stopping trains are serving each face of what is essentially one platform, with passengers travelling in both directions having to share one space, while the fast line island platform sits empty/disused.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It can be quite disconcerting/entertaining when trains on a PBD arrangement overtake each other on adjacent lines at speed.
I'm thinking of 110mph 350s being overtaken (gradually) by 125mph Pendolinos on the 4-track Trent Valley route.
You can get close up to the "other" train at speed and inspect its interior and the passengers.
PBU routes keep trains in the same direction at arm's length, so not as intimate, but better for on-train photography.

 

[ComUtoR]

Can I vote for 4x reversible

 

[zwk500]

Can I vote for 4x reversible

Is there any such track in the country outside of station throats? The closest I am aware of is the Trent Valley, but even that is only Bi-Di on the Fasts, with each slow being a single direction only.
ETCS L2 would probably allow some more, crossover layouts permitting.

 

[yorksrob]

I quite like pair by direction for longer distance routes. It's enjoyable whizzing through on the centre lines - a rare occurrence on the South Eastern mainline these days.

Nearer to London, pair by use is probably better as you tend to get platforms on both sets of lines, meaning additional platform canopies, buildings etc.

 

[Silver Cobra]

I don't think there are many PBD routes that feature two island platforms. Wimbledon, New Cross Gate, New Barnet and Turnham Green are the ones I can easily think of.

The southern part of the ECML between Kings Cross and Peterborough has quite a few: New Southgate, Oakleigh Park, New Barnet, Potters Bar, Brookmans Park, Hatfield (though only in the Down direction), Knebworth, Stevenage, Biggleswade and St Neots.

 

[Topological]

What are PBU and PBD?

My Apologies, I used the acronyms as they were already defined in the thread. I only really thought about them today as normally I would have typed the full name out.

 

[Danfilm007]

My Apologies, I used the acronyms as they were already defined in the thread. I only really thought about them today as normally I would have typed the full name out.

Don't worry - better to ask and know than not

 

[devon_belle]

I prefer PBD, especially in more interesting arrangements (at stations) like Hatfield and Stamford Brook. Also, the Windsor lines between Clapham Jnc and Putney, where they are used as US, UF, DS, DF is interesting. I think it's good because it goes against one's railway intuition, leading to more 'surprises' when trains pass.

 

[The exile]

There's been a number of threads over whether having four tracks paired by use (Up Fast, Down Fast, Up slow, down slow) or direction (Up Slow, Up Fast, Down Fast, Down Slow), is better operationally. But I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on which track pairing is better from a pure enthusiast perspective.

I don't think there are many PBD routes that feature two island platforms. Wimbledon, New Cross Gate, New Barnet and Turnham Green are the ones I can easily think of.

Quite a lot of the southern ECML do, IIRC - see I was beaten to it - not sure how I missed that!

 

[plugwash]

I don't think there are many PBD routes that feature two island platforms. Wimbledon, New Cross Gate, New Barnet and Turnham Green are the ones I can easily think of.

Stockport was two islands until relatively recently. Now it's two islands and an extra platform on one side.

Still there is only an extra platform for trains running away from Manchester. So in normal operation* all trains to Manchester go from the same island which is nice.

* Technically a train can arrive in platform 1 from Manchester and reverse back towards Manchester, but this only happens during disruption or engineering works.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Likewise - my personal preference is 'paired by direction'. As a younger enthusiast I found it made watching trains/photography easier as, with typical stations only having a platform on each of the outer slow lines only, you can get unobstructed views of trains on three of the four lines from any given position (subject to another train getting in the way!). 'Paired by use' lines you've always got a platform face, people and station clutter in the way where two islands exist, or where you have two outer platforms and a single island platform in the middle then that middle platform obstructs your view across all four lines.

Only three lines? Surely with a platform on each of the outer slow lines, with all the tracks in the middle, you get a view of all four lines simultaneously from either platform?

 

[Mat17]

PBD sounds operationally more logical to me.

 

[class 9]

Paired by use, (eg GWML Paddington to Didcot u/d/u/d), paired by direction, (eg SWML Wimbledon to Basingstoke u/u/d/d).

I've been on the railway 34 years, never heard these terms!!!... every days a school day!!!!

 

[Flange Squeal]

Only three lines? Surely with a platform on each of the outer slow lines, with all the tracks in the middle, you get a view of all four lines simultaneously from either platform?

Overall view, indeed. What I was phrasing badly was from a photography point of view, only the line closest would have any kind of "obstructed" full view of the train below solebar level as blocked by the platform you're on, while the other three lines you can see the train in its entirety from top to bottom. Just a weird preference I had as a kid when taking photos

 

[py_megapixel]

Is there anywhere that does paired by direction with the fasts on the outside and island platforms at the minor stations? Seems like that would be the best - means you get to stand in the middle with a decent view of everything, and a local train can't block your view of the whole thing at once.

Also avoids the problem of a long walk between the platforms at local stations, and perhaps means less duplication of passenger facilities (you don't need to provide separate waiting shelters for each direction, for example).

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Overall view, indeed. What I was phrasing badly was from a photography point of view, only the line closest would have any kind of "obstructed" full view of the train below solebar level as blocked by the platform you're on, while the other three lines you can see the train in its entirety from top to bottom. Just a weird preference I had as a kid when taking photos

Ah OK, yeah, that makes sense!

 

[greatkingrat]

Is there anywhere that does paired by direction with the fasts on the outside and island platforms at the minor stations? Seems like that would be the best - means you get to stand in the middle with a decent view of everything, and a local train can't block your view of the whole thing at once.

Also avoids the problem of a long walk between the platforms at local stations, and perhaps means less duplication of passenger facilities (you don't need to provide separate waiting shelters for each direction, for example).

Not NR, but the Metropolitan line between Wembley and Harrow has this arrangement.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Not NR, but the Metropolitan line between Wembley and Harrow has this arrangement.

More than that: Between Finchley Road and Harrow, with the Jubilee providing the slow service East of Wembley Park.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Paired by direction feels great, esp with flyover coming in left and right. It does make engineering work more challenging as the ability to just use the other lines doesn’t exist.