Preserved class 60s.

[37114]

Given the fact of their sheer power, it's ashame that 60s will be stored/withdrawn, however on a bright side, there is a 60 group aiming to restore and preserve a Class 60.

Mods note - split from this thread

Link to the group, they are very formative however. https://www.class60preservation.co.uk/

 

[Gwr12345]

Does anyone know what happened to 60086, according to Wikipedia it entered preservation on the Wensleydale Railway in 2020, but it wasn't there when I went?

 

[ExRes]

Does anyone know what happened to 60086, according to Wikipedia it entered preservation on the Wensleydale Railway in 2020, but it wasn't there when I went?

60086 & 60050 are both at Shires Removals Yard in Kinsley, certainly as of the end of July this year, the last photos on Flickr show them to be less than mint condition

 

[Alanko]

On a bright side, there is a 60 group aiming to restore and preserve a Class 60.

They might be able to clean one up cosmetically, but the internal gubbins are complex and built upon obsolete technology. They will need a vast reserve of money to keep one barely ticking along. Very different order of complexity from, say, keeping a Sulzer Type 2, 37 et al in working order.

I think it will be preservation as a means of holding off an inevitable trip to Sims Metals, but not much more.

 

[D365]

They might be able to clean one up cosmetically, but the internal gubbins are complex and built upon obsolete technology. They will need a vast reserve of money to keep one barely ticking along.

And the right contacts…

 

[D7666]

They might be able to clean one up cosmetically, but the internal gubbins are complex and built upon obsolete technology. They will need a vast reserve of money to keep one barely ticking along. Very different order of complexity from, say, keeping a Sulzer Type 2, 37 et al in working order.

Isn't every preserved diesel gubbins obsolete ?

More complex than a 6LDA28 maybe, but I suggest no more complex for the right preservationsists of the right mind set than a Maybach hydraulic (of which there are several), or one of those former ECML two stroke devices (of which there are also several), or HST power cars (etc). And Mirrlees spares easier to come by, as well as oodles of them will going on the scrap market at the same time.

If all potential preservationists had sat back in the past and said "too complex" "obsolete" etc we'd have nothing like we do have today

 

[ActonChris]

Parts can be 3D printed. DB has been doing this for a while.

 

[Alanko]

If all potential preservationists had sat back in the past and said "too complex" "obsolete" etc we'd have nothing like we do have today

I don't see preservationists having much luck dealing with 30+ year old microprocessors. There might be some way to 'hack' a 60 to work in some sort of brainless low-tech manor like an earlier diesel locomotive, but I doubt it somehow.

The 58s in preservation don't appear to be progressing much, and I'm taking that as a yardstick for any future attempts at Class 60 preservation.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Link to the group, they are very formative however. https://www.class60preservation.co.uk/

Just what this hobby needs - another bunch of dreamers asking for money for an unrealistic and hopeless cause.

A 60 might be preserved but the bit about restoring it to full mainline condition so it can haul charters across the country is just fantasy nonsense.

 

[D7666]

So much negativity.

 

[Alanko]

So much negativity.

It is called being realistic. 'Positive vibes only' don't get locomotives restored to mainline condition. The Clacton Express Preservation Group have recently demonstrated why you need a lot more going on than eager teenage boys with flat caps and begging bowls to get this sort of project running.

Preservation, at its lowest ebb, is glorified cosplay for fantasists. Having a link to a PayPal account doesn't net you good project management skills, long term dry storage facilities, the sort of everyday technical knowledge locked inside the heads of a dwindling pool of former BR engineers, replacement parts from dormant manufacturers or those offering no OEM support, etc.


I reckon I could start something daft and frankly delusional like 'The Fell Locomotive recreation society' and get a steady cash flow from some enthusiasts. I could buy the most incomplete, rotted out 37 off a scrap line, dump it under a tarp at my local heritage railway, occasionally paint a bit of it, and find my most illiterate mate to update a Wordpress blog (every six months or so) and 'the veg' would keep chucking me money.

 

[D7666]

Microprocessors are COTS items. The individual COTS components are built by the supplier into a bespoke LRU. There is no reason why a modern replacement equivalent LRU could not be made. This sort of thing there are loads of people out there with the knowledge to do that who maybe are clueless on older clockwork / analogue devices. Indeed, building up such a LRU can be much easier than attempting a completely 100% bespoke older electromechanical devices.

I routinely deal with this sort of thing within the rail industry - 10-20-30 years old electronics and processor devices through work. I know what can - and is done - out there- including (mainly in USA) warehouses full of unsold unused original OEM devices stored under controlled conditions that are available to buy. Covers all things like 8088 8086 286 386 486 etc, 68000, 6502, 9995, Sparc, and anything else you can think of, and proprietary ASICs, and on and on, and every form and factor of RAM, other memory and so on. There are specialist companies I have dealt with that can make you 1980s PCBs to 1980s spec (apart from now using lead free solder). It is all possible. A GB preservation group going to US and buying kit like this is no different to a.n.other GB group going to DE or RO for Maybach MD or Sulzer LDA engine parts or complete engines. If a group of GB people want to make a 60 work and have the mind set to do so, they will.

I can see there might be an issue with 'home made' devices when going for main lne certification, but go one step at a time, they need to work off main line first.

 

[Ianigsy]

The challenge of working with 30 year old microprocessors is the kind of thing that might attract somebody into the preservation movement who wouldn’t want to fire a steam loco - in fact, it might provide a way in for somebody who wasn’t physically able but could do the IT side.

 

[D7666]

The challenge of working with 30 year old microprocessors is the kind of thing that might attract somebody into the preservation movement who wouldn’t want to fire a steam loco - in fact, it might provide a way in for somebody who wasn’t physically able but could do the IT side.

My thoughts too.

Also, that is the kind of important task, taking up little space, that someone could do at home, rather than drag themselves over numerous weekends to some cold wet site to wield stone age tools. It is actually quite attractive.

 

[Bertie the bus]

My comment had nothing to do with micro-processors. Nobody with any sense can for 1 second believe there is demand for a 60 mph modern freight loco to haul charters across the country. It is absolute nonsense.

Getting a loco up to mainline standard and fitting it with all the required safety systems costs a fortune. There is no possibility of that happening for a loco class that doesn’t really have a following and would maybe haul 2 charters before people got bored of it and stopped booking.

 

[37114]

Just what this hobby needs - another bunch of dreamers asking for money for an unrealistic and hopeless cause.

A 60 might be preserved but the bit about restoring it to full mainline condition so it can haul charters across the country is just fantasy nonsense.

So much negativity.

I did recently meet the main person behind the C60PG, they had a stand at the local model railway show which he was using to sell stuff to raise money. He has enthusiasm but as noted needs some direction and some support which sadly while I would love to help I don't have time for. Some of the website content is ill advised (eg mention of a specific loco they/he wants to bid on, mainline running etc) but fundamentally many preservation groups started on similar grounds and time will show whether they grow or sink. The recent openess from the class 56 group who are well established but are short on labour and funds is probably a great proxy for the challenges of preservation so the reality is that a non working 60081 plus poss 60100 which was/is designated for preservation are likely to be the only 2 survivors.

 

[12LDA28C]

My comment had nothing to do with micro-processors. Nobody with any sense can for 1 second believe there is demand for a 60 mph modern freight loco to haul charters across the country. It is absolute nonsense.

Getting a loco up to mainline standard and fitting it with all the required safety systems costs a fortune. There is no possibility of that happening for a loco class that doesn’t really have a following and would maybe haul 2 charters before people got bored of it and stopped booking.

Particularly for a class of loco that is still active on the main line with various operators, some of which have fairly recently been returned to main line use and should be around for a good few years yet...

 

[D365]

As demonstrated by the Class 56 Group’s recent decision, it’s companies such as DCR [and GBRf] that have the resources to maintain and operate heavy freight locomotives.

 

[Ianigsy]

Perhaps better to go down the same route as 90050 and preserve a shell on bogies from the Toton scrap line - the innards can be picked up from other working examples later.

 

[12LDA28C]

Perhaps better to go down the same route as 90050 and preserve a shell on bogies from the Toton scrap line - the innards can be picked up from other working examples later.

That's already been done with 60081.

 

[4SubAsociation]

That's already been done with 60081.

Seeing that 60081 has been repainted (this is quite recent). https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_sa...CQQ6e-2nzaVmZ-2nzixAS-2noAGiE-2ngyNe7-2mFxJ3V

What i am aware it is to go on display but it has been discussed it may run again? Its going to a good home anyway

 

[Cowley]

Seeing that 60081 has been repainted (this is quite recent). https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_sa...CQQ6e-2nzaVmZ-2nzixAS-2noAGiE-2ngyNe7-2mFxJ3V

What i am aware it is to go on display but it has been discussed it may run again? Its going to a good home anyway

In that Flickr feed if you go right a few photos there’s an interesting shot where it looks like they’ve cut out a section of the bodyshell next to the power unit. I assume that was the area that was damaged by assorted flying bits of engine gubbins was it?

 

[Harvester]

Perhaps better to go down the same route as 90050 and preserve a shell on bogies from the Toton scrap line - the innards can be picked up from other working examples later.

I can remember a certain Peak. After rotting for twenty years on the Toton scrap line the ’preserved’ remains were moved to Shackerstone , and then just rotted for another twenty years!

 

[12LDA28C]

Seeing that 60081 has been repainted (this is quite recent). https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_sa...CQQ6e-2nzaVmZ-2nzixAS-2noAGiE-2ngyNe7-2mFxJ3V

What i am aware it is to go on display but it has been discussed it may run again? Its going to a good home anyway

It was always intended to repaint it into Brunswick green before going on display at Margate. It may run again eventually although a single Class 60 wouldn't be massively useful in LSL's fleet I imagine.

 

[DGH 1]

And the right contacts…

I'm no expert and this might be a daft thing to suggest, but as a prospective locomotive would no longer need to be on the main line pulling what could be a few thousand tons of train on all rail conditions etc, could a lot of the wizardry and magic be bypassed with something simpler to make it suitable for a preserved line?.

 

[xotGD]

I'm no expert and this might be a daft thing to suggest, but as a prospective locomotive would no longer need to be on the main line pulling what could be a few thousand tons of train on all rail conditions etc, could a lot of the wizardry and magic be bypassed with something simpler to make it suitable for a preserved line?.

Gut the insides, install some batteries and a sound system to play artificial thrash. Sorted.

 

[Cowley]

Would the owners of 89001 have had to find their way around similar outdated electronics from that era?

 

[Ashley Hill]

There was an issue some years ago I believe when circuit cards were stolen from some class 37/9s.

 

[43096]

There was an issue some years ago I believe when circuit cards were stolen from some class 37/9s.

It was the GEC alternator control cards, from memory. There were only 10 GEC alternators used in the Class 37 HGR programme, so they weren’t common to start with.

 

[sprinterguy]

In that Flickr feed if you go right a few photos there’s an interesting shot where it looks like they’ve cut out a section of the bodyshell next to the power unit. I assume that was the area that was damaged by assorted flying bits of engine gubbins was it?

I presume you're referring to the photo of the aperture for the engine room doors, located midway along the bodyside. No cutting of the bodyshell required.