Preserved London Underground trains

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Mitchell Hurd

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Good evening. Ever since riding on probably the 3rd Bakerloo line train, I've really grown fond of the 1972 stock because of their look. Their also very useful because of their availability of some forward facing seats. Not the quietest of trains or coolest in the warmer weather but that doesn't stop me using the trains.

I'm aware that the Isle of Wight has 1938 former London Underground stock in use but are their any days where say stock older than the 46-year-old Tubes that may run occasionally on London Underground lines say on special event days? I saw a picture of one on the internet or magazine which surprised me.

Then again, perhaps that train (1959 one I think) was new or newish at the time.

Hope this all helps.
 
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bramling

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Good evening. Ever since riding on probably the 3rd Bakerloo line train, I've really grown fond of the 1972 stock because of their look. Their also very useful because of their availability of some forward facing seats. Not the quietest of trains or coolest in the warmer weather but that doesn't stop me using the trains.

I'm aware that the Isle of Wight has 1938 former London Underground stock in use but are their any days where say stock older than the 46-year-old Tubes that may run occasionally on London Underground lines say on special event days? I saw a picture of one on the internet or magazine which surprised me.

Then again, perhaps that train (1959 one I think) was new or newish at the time.

Hope this all helps.

The short answer is no.

The slightly longer answer is that the LT Museum’s 4-car 38 stock unit does occasional tours from time to time, mainly on the Met Line.

Aside from that, there’s a 3-car 60 stock unit owned by Cravens Heritage Trains which resides on LU metals. This hasn’t run under its own power for some time, and unfortunately was involved in a mess-up last time it did run on LU returning from an event at Epping Ongar Railway (albeit more LU’s fault than the unit’s!).

LU have a handful of old trains used for engineering purposes, however they don’t carry passengers. There’s a 4-car 72mk1 stock unit kept at Aldwych for filming purposes (which would be an excellent candidate for preservation when that role ends, as it probably will if and when Holborn station is reconstructed), and two 62 stock trains used for rail adhesion duties, one of which also contains the last remaining operational 59 stock car. There’s also two D stocks used for the same purpose. A small number of other cars also remain stored at various locations, but not really operational.
 

eldomtom2

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In addition, there's also the two cars of 1959 stock at Alderney, which I believe is the only preserved LU stock in regular use (not just railtours), albeit not under its own power.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Good evening. Ever since riding on probably the 3rd Bakerloo line train, I've really grown fond of the 1972 stock because of their look. Their also very useful because of their availability of some forward facing seats. Not the quietest of trains or coolest in the warmer weather but that doesn't stop me using the trains.

I'm aware that the Isle of Wight has 1938 former London Underground stock in use but are their any days where say stock older than the 46-year-old Tubes that may run occasionally on London Underground lines say on special event days? I saw a picture of one on the internet or magazine which surprised me.

Then again, perhaps that train (1959 one I think) was new or newish at the time.

Hope this all helps.[/QUOTE

Is the 1972 Bakerloo Stock, the type of trains which are used on that line n
Good evening. Ever since riding on probably the 3rd Bakerloo line train, I've really grown fond of the 1972 stock because of their look. Their also very useful because of their availability of some forward facing seats. Not the quietest of trains or coolest in the warmer weather but that doesn't stop me using the trains.

I'm aware that the Isle of Wight has 1938 former London Underground stock in use but are their any days where say stock older than the 46-year-old Tubes that may run occasionally on London Underground lines say on special event days? I saw a picture of one on the internet or magazine which surprised me.

Then again, perhaps that train (1959 one I think) was new or newish at the time.

Hope this all helps.


Is the 1972 Bakerloo Stock, the type of trains which are used on that line now? I do like that line/trains.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Absolutely, yes :)! If you're still unsure, look it up on Google / Wikipedia. One great advantage of going from Oxford to London Marylebone with Chiltern Railways then the Underground is a guaranteed trip (when no disruption / engineering works) on a 1972 stock train!
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Absolutely, yes :)! If you're still unsure, look it up on Google / Wikipedia. One great advantage of going from Oxford to London Marylebone with Chiltern Railways then the Underground is a guaranteed trip (when no disruption / engineering works) on a 1972 stock train!
Great thank you, as mentioned before. I do like the Bakerloo line, hope those 1972 carriages are going to stay for a long time yet, the do have character. Infact it was not really that lomng ago, that sometimes an old red train came along on that line. (By co incidence, all being well, I shall be using the Bakerloo in a few weeks time, combined with Chiltern, hopefully loco hauled to and from Marylebone/Brum for a day out.
 

reddragon

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The 1972 stock are literally falling apart! The corner posts have rotted away, so a major rebuild programme is under way for them to hang on until the new tube for London stock arrives. The 1973 stock is being replaced 1st as in a more dire need of replacement.

The 1972 stocks structural condition is so bad that they cannot be considered for the IOW.

You have until 2025ish I think to ride them, if they last that long!
 

Mitchell Hurd

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If Wikipedia / my mind is correct, the 1972 stock will be replaced in 15 years time. So 61 years old by then. First Underground trains I went on in 2006 I think - Bakerloo line anyway :) .

I'm a bit concerned myself regarding 1972 stock running for 15 more years.. However, I'm pretty confident that with continued great maintenance they will last 15 more years! Look at the 80-year-old former Tube stock on the Isle of Wight and several 1960's diesel trains + the IC 125 HST's (albeit modernisation of the 125's). I've not been there but am aware of such old stock over there.
 

reddragon

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If Wikipedia / my mind is correct, the 1972 stock will be replaced in 15 years time. So 61 years old by then. First Underground trains I went on in 2006 I think - Bakerloo line anyway :) .

I'm a bit concerned myself regarding 1972 stock running for 15 more years.. However, I'm pretty confident that with continued great maintenance they will last 15 more years! Look at the 80-year-old former Tube stock on the Isle of Wight and several 1960's diesel trains + the IC 125 HST's (albeit modernisation of the 125's). I've not been there but am aware of such old stock over there.

The 1938 stock and HSTs are steel construction and suffer only from corrosion which can be managed, whereas the 1972 stock is aluminium and suffers from fatigue and chemical reactions between steel & aluminium components which cannot always be dealt with.
 

bramling

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I believe the refurbishment is intended to last them until 2026.

With the current financial situation, I can't see them being gone before 2025 at the earliest. It's quite conceivable they could see 60 years, if they don't fall apart first!

A lot may depend on what happens with the Central Line fleet, which is about to commence a major re-engineering programme. If that programme is successful then replacement of the Central Line fleet won't be such a pressing issue. If for whatever reason they continue to be unacceptably unreliable then it may tip the scales back in favour of replacing the Central Line first.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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With the current financial situation, I can't see them being gone before 2025 at the earliest. It's quite conceivable they could see 60 years, if they don't fall apart first!

A lot may depend on what happens with the Central Line fleet, which is about to commence a major re-engineering programme. If that programme is successful then replacement of the Central Line fleet won't be such a pressing issue. If for whatever reason they continue to be unacceptably unreliable then it may tip the scales back in favour of replacing the Central Line first.
I didn't think the central line fleet was that old?
 

Mikey C

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I didn't think the central line fleet was that old?

The 92 stock on the Central Line is a bit...rubbish really!

The 72 on the Bakerloo does need serious work to keep it going for another 10-15 years, but there isn't really an alternative. It helps that the Bakerloo Line is one of the quieter ones on the network.
 

bramling

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I didn't think the central line fleet was that old?

It's not so much that they're old, more that they're chronically unreliable. The daily incident review for the Central Line is a list of rolling stock issue after issue, far more so than any other line.

Compare with the 95 and 96 stock which are only a few years younger and the difference is stark.
 

trash80

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The 1972 stock are literally falling apart! The corner posts have rotted away, so a major rebuild programme is under way for them to hang on until the new tube for London stock arrives. The 1973 stock is being replaced 1st as in a more dire need of replacement.

The 1972 stocks structural condition is so bad that they cannot be considered for the IOW.

You have until 2025ish I think to ride them, if they last that long!

They arn't considered for the IOW because they haven't got cab doors. They are currently undergoing a refurb which will keep them going until the late 2020s, there is no need for this hyperbole about them imminently falling apart.
 

Journeyman

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It's not so much that they're old, more that they're chronically unreliable. The daily incident review for the Central Line is a list of rolling stock issue after issue, far more so than any other line.

Compare with the 95 and 96 stock which are only a few years younger and the difference is stark.

Yup - it's because the 92 Stock was the first tube train packed full of electronics and computers, instead of the old-fashioned but reliable PCM control system (essentially a bunch of resistors). Early completely-electronic trains have had reliability issues wherever they've been used - the Class 465s are a similar age, and they've had a lot of similar problems.

The 95s and 96s are a generation on from the 92s, and so many of the problems were ironed out by then.
 

Mikey C

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Yup - it's because the 92 Stock was the first tube train packed full of electronics and computers, instead of the old-fashioned but reliable PCM control system (essentially a bunch of resistors). Early completely-electronic trains have had reliability issues wherever they've been used - the Class 465s are a similar age, and they've had a lot of similar problems.

The 95s and 96s are a generation on from the 92s, and so many of the problems were ironed out by then.

I think it's more than this. The 92s have already had their bogies replaced, while the bodywork is in far worse condition than the 95s and 96s.
 

philthetube

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The 1972 stock are literally falling apart! The corner posts have rotted away, so a major rebuild programme is under way for them to hang on until the new tube for London stock arrives. The 1973 stock is being replaced 1st as in a more dire need of replacement.

The 1972 stocks structural condition is so bad that they cannot be considered for the IOW.

You have until 2025ish I think to ride them, if they last that long!

They arn't considered for the IOW because they haven't got cab doors. They are currently undergoing a refurb which will keep them going until the late 2020s, there is no need for this hyperbole about them imminently falling apart.

They also aren't available
 

eldomtom2

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And I don't think they expect the 483s to last until the late 20s, and the 1973 stock is too long. I believe they think they can get the Class 230s to fit. Wonder if any the 483s will be preserved, while I can't imagine the LT Museum being interested as they have five already they do form part of the IoW's rail heritage.
 

simple simon

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What about the Class 482? (as they were called when first built for the Waterloo & City line).

These might be in better condition, since they never see daylight or rain and only travel at modest speeds between two stations!

Electrically they are not the same as 1992 tube stocks, as the latter have been modified since first built.

btw, who remembers how the Central line trains had a spate of motors falling off the trains - which caused the Central line to close for several months back in circa 2003?
 

eldomtom2

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Again, I think they'll be too late. Even if they do go before the 72 stock that's still probably going to be after the final point where they think they can keep the 483s running.
 

simple simon

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I can think of two other ideas.

1) Add to the LU order for Siemens Inspiro trains (or another order for brand new trains for a different railway operator).

2) Its very much 'out of the ordinary' but might work. Send a tube car to Eastern Europe for cloning. Maybe though the electrics etc would be new, or transplanted from other trains.

Option two is, if my understanding is correct, what LU did to replace some C stock cars which were destroyed in bomb events in 2005.
 

eldomtom2

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I don't know if the Inspiros would be suitable, and again, the current plan is to use Class 230s, I believe.
 

MrGriff500

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Does the Aldwych 72TS even exist anymore? If it is, they gotta preserve that! London Underground’s last original MkI on the rails is better condition than ALL of the Bakerloo Line fleet! It will just need a good clean, interior is complete and good Nick.

Also the MkIs were much better looking than the MkIIs without the front grab rails and the numbers in the door. Even if it is a pain to get out of.
 
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