Preston - Platform 3C

[crispy1978]

Was going back to Liverpool from Barrow yesterday and changed at Preston for the Northern train to Ormskirk.

Platform 3C was advertised. Looked up and down the platform - couldn't see 3C, but could see 2A and 2B across the way so thought I'd hang in the middle.

A Northern train arrived, which I assumed was it - but the platform boards said "Not in Service - Off to Depot", and seeing an Edinburgh service on the info boards I assumed it was going to let this through and return.

Only then did the platform board change to Blackpool North I knew something was wrong. There is a tiny sign with an arrow pointing 3C down the platform and to an out of sight bay platform (also 4C I assume), we literally made our train with seconds to spare.

It is horrendously signed, very hidden and I can imagine we won't be the only ones to either nearly miss, or totally miss a train from that platform.

Given 2a and 2b are on the same platform essentially, you'd have thought 3c would be an extension of 3, otherwise give it a different number! Especially considering its a completely different platform!

I tweeted VT but I suspect nothing will come of it.

 

[najaB]

I tweeted VT but I suspect nothing will come of it.

As far as I know, VT don't number the platforms so you'd need to speak to NR.

 

[Elecman]

Been numbered like that for the last 30 years or so to my knowledge.

 

[Michael.Y]

Sorry but you've no-one to blame but yourself. You assumed that you were on 3C despite there being absolutely zero evidence that you were. And as usual someone else is to blame. Did you think about asking someone? Perhaps a member of station staff, or train crew coming off the terminating service?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do think that numbering scheme is silly, but if you don't know why not ask?

 

[crispy1978]

I accept that the penny probably should have dropped sooner - I'm not blaming anyone, just saying it should be clearer.

Every other station I can remember visiting, letters are to split a bigger platform in to segments (ie a is one end, b is the middle, and c is the other end).

At least I'll know for next time!

 

[Darren R]

The southern bay platforms at Preston have been numbered in this way for at least the last 30-odd years, and I've always thought that it's illogical and misleading. I can well see how it confuses those who don't know the station. I don't know how clear the signage is though - I know where the platforms are so I never need to look!

There also used to be a short bay platform at the northern end of platform 3 which was used for the sleeper services between Preston and Euston. From memory this was numbered platform 3D. (I think!)

 

[D1009]

There is exactly the same situation at Sheffield with platform 2C there.

 

[crispy1978]

The southern bay platforms at Preston have been numbered in this way for at least the last 30-odd years, and I've always thought that it's illogical and misleading. I can well see how it confuses those who don't know the station. I don't know how clear the signage is though - I know where the platforms are so I never need to look!

There also used to be a short bay platform at the northern end of platform 3 which was used for the sleeper services between Preston and Euston. From memory this was numbered platform 3D. (I think!)

I can't see them changing them then!

It would look weird numbering them 8 and 9, but a bigger sign would help! Almost wish I'd got a picture of it now.

A big 'A' board with Platform 3C and an arrow wouldn't go amiss. It certainly wouldn't harm the situation.

I didn't ask anyone because I assumed I was in the right place, and when I saw a big yellow train I would move towards it! But I couldn't see it arrive.

 

[AngusH]

Let me ask a question:

If I have never visited the station before, is the current signage sufficient to direct me from main entrances and all other platforms to platform 3c?


(Without requiring significant guesswork and assuming that I spot all signs that I should reasonably see)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The bays in question are particularly out of the way, being a fair way down (or up, in railway parlance!) a long island with a large building down the middle. Basically you go down the ramp from the main entrance and walk past the platform building on that island. If you think you've walked too far, keep going!

 

[Gathursty]

I don't think they are that well signposted as I recall having to ask BUT when you get to the subway I do believe there is a sign pointing to the Ormskirk platforms. It is a long, long walk though haha.

 

[AngusH]

Useful to know. Thanks

Somehow platform numbers with letters always make me slightly unsure of whether I'm in the right place.

I'm curious to know how it got to be "c" though, did it not deserve a proper number of its own?

 

[crispy1978]

Let me ask a question:

If I have never visited the station before, is the current signage sufficient to direct me from main entrances and all other platforms to platform 3c?


(Without requiring significant guesswork and assuming that I spot all signs that I should reasonably see)

It wasn't for me. If I'd have seen a sign for 3C I'd have followed it.

Granted we used the lifts as my wife has mobility issues, but they should still be signposted from there too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Useful to know. Thanks

Somehow platform numbers with letters always make me slightly unsure of whether I'm in the right place.

I'm curious to know how it got to be "c" though, did it not deserve a proper number of its own?

That's my point too - I'd expect 3C to be a part of 3, not a completely separate platform.

 

[bb21]

I don't see what the OP has done wrong. Most stations use suffix letters to indicate a different part of the same platform, so it is a reasonable assumption to make.

To name a completely separate platform with the same number is stupid, and confusing imo, and shows that it was done for the railway's convenience rather than having passengers' needs in mind.

Renumbering the platforms is unlikely considering the costs involved. It is not difficult to put prominent signs up given the remoteness of the two bays. That is an aspect Virgin have full control over.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't see what the OP has done wrong. Most stations use suffix letters to indicate a different part of the same platform, so it is a reasonable assumption to make.

To name a completely separate platform with the same number is stupid, and confusing imo, and shows that it was done for the railway's convenience rather than having passengers' needs in mind.

Renumbering the platforms is unlikely considering the costs involved. It is not difficult to put prominent signs up given the remoteness of the two bays. That is an aspect Virgin have full control over.

Preston isn't, or wasn't, the only place where this happens though: up until the rebuild the two "Southern" bays at Reading shared a number with the adjacent through platform. I can understand this if a new platform is opened but from appearance those bays have been there for a long time.

 

[bb21]

Preston isn't, or wasn't, the only place where this happens though: up until the rebuild the two "Southern" bays at Reading shared a number with the adjacent through platform. I can understand this if a new platform is opened but from appearance those bays have been there for a long time.

Only a very selected few stations have that arrangement, same with platforms not in strictly numerical order. Even at a place like Reading (old), out of 12 platforms, only 4a and 4b was in that arrangement, and that is a quite high proportion for a large station.

Chances are that someone not familiar with how platform numbering works (often with a historical background) would probably not be aware of these arrangements.

 

[DarloRich]

Sorry but you've no-one to blame but yourself. You assumed that you were on 3C despite there being absolutely zero evidence that you were. And as usual someone else is to blame. Did you think about asking someone? Perhaps a member of station staff, or train crew coming off the terminating service?

wow - helpful, aggressive, interjection there Gary! I don't think the OP was ;looking to "blame" anyone. :roll:

Let me ask a question:

If I have never visited the station before, is the current signage sufficient to direct me from main entrances and all other platforms to platform 3c?

(Without requiring significant guesswork and assuming that I spot all signs that I should reasonably see)

It should be!

Directions to platforms should be easily understandable by all able bodied station users without having to ask for station staff to point you in the right direction having first uttered the secret code to allow you access to the hidden platform!

 

[headshot119]

Preston isn't, or wasn't, the only place where this happens though: up until the rebuild the two "Southern" bays at Reading shared a number with the adjacent through platform. I can understand this if a new platform is opened but from appearance those bays have been there for a long time.

Bridgend has platform 1 on the main line with platform 1a at one end of it which serves the Vale of Glamorgan line.

Sheffield has 2C which is a bay.

New Street had 4C which is a bay at the very end of platform 4.

 

[crispy1978]

To rectify, it either needs renumbering (can't see that happening) or just making a bit clearer (not too tricky, and cheap enough to do - a couple of A boards against the wall should do the trick, and shouldn't be a Health and Safety issue - could even paint it on the platform too!)

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I agree, Preston needs either better signs or a logical numbering system.
Platform renumbering didn't cause much confusion when Lincoln changed all the numbers to lower, as it made it clearer.

 

[davyp]

Sorry but you've no-one to blame but yourself. You assumed that you were on 3C despite there being absolutely zero evidence that you were. And as usual someone else is to blame. Did you think about asking someone? Perhaps a member of station staff, or train crew coming off the terminating service?

Michael, WHY? Its very easy for the professionals, experienced enthusiasts, general know-it-alls to be frustrated by the newcomer, the newby, the first time visitor. Perhaps a little understanding, empathy even, would not have come amiss in this instance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does seem to be a little out of the way...

Similarly at Edinburgh Waverley, Platform 8 always seems tricky to find.

 

[Michael.Y]

Michael, WHY? Its very easy for the professionals, experienced enthusiasts, general know-it-alls to be frustrated by the newcomer, the newby, the first time visitor. Perhaps a little understanding, empathy even, would not have come amiss in this instance.

Ah I see right.

Very well. Next time I want a bus to London I'll go stand in the middle of Cabot's Circus. It's not where I need to be but I've never been to Bristol bus station before so I'll just plead ignorance when I miss my bus.

 

[Howardh]

It's a bit like Platform 2 at Bolton, well tucked out of the way, and the National Rail plan above doesn't help much even though they are shown.
On the Wikipedia page r/e Preston station, the map shown is better - when enlarged fully - and their purpose, but in all the years I've changed at Preston I had no idea they were there!
Maybe across the board these "hidden" platforms need clearer marking. Ones like that and Bolton + others (Oxford Road has one but that's pretty obvious) could possibly have a "T" added so pax know they are looking for a platform treminus. In Botlon's case it would be Platform 2T, and in Preston....well, that's awkward as there already is a platform 3 so maybe 3C(T) so hopefully pax can find 3, know they are on the A part, work their way down to B and find C/T.

Sympathies with the OP, in my mind those platforms should really be 4T and 5T and then the next one 6a + b (where the VT trains usually pass southbound).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's no different to Platform 4c at New Street.
Miles away at the end of platform 4, invisible from the main passenger access point (escalators).
It might benefit from more conspicuous signage, but the numbering of the bays is quite normal.

I noticed today that the newly introduced Liverpool-Preston 319s are reversing in platform 2 with a turnround time of just 2 minutes - blink and it's gone!

 

[bb21]

Ah I see right.

Very well. Next time I want a bus to London I'll go stand in the middle of Cabot's Circus. It's not where I need to be but I've never been to Bristol bus station before so I'll just plead ignorance when I miss my bus.

Missing the point spectacularly.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Presumably the numbering at Preston dates back to the last major resignalling which I'm guessing was during the electrification of WCML North in the 1970s. Clearly these platforms physically predate this, but were they taken out of use then and only reinstated later? If not, it doesn't make much sense to be numbered the way they are.

Hopefully whenever the signalling is due to be replaced, the platforms can be renumbered in a more logical fashion.When coming down the ramp you have P4 to the right and P5 to the left, so it's understandable that the OP assumed that 4c was one end of the through platforms as that is the convention. When I regularly used Preston for the Ormskirk services, platform 2 was the usual departure point, though that was over a decade ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For those forum members not privy to what a complete station platform numbering, especially at a large station, can mean in terms of associated matters of signalling diagrams, etc, can someone with detailed knowledge of such matters give a full posting explanation that will be of help to forum members who are not as well versed in such operational niceties.

 

[fairysdad]

Ah I see right.

Very well. Next time I want a bus to London I'll go stand in the middle of Cabot's Circus. It's not where I need to be but I've never been to Bristol bus station before so I'll just plead ignorance when I miss my bus.

I'll admit that I don't know Preston station at all, or indeed Cabot Circus' bus station/stands, but your analogy would make more sense to the actual situation here if you knew what bus you wanted, and the display said that it was at Stand P which turned out to be accessed by passing under the main road, and through a gate which was labelled 'Beware of the leopard'.

I do have sympathy with the OP though, having looked at the NRE diagram posted above (and knowing how inaccurate they can be sometimes), and having got lost myself when looking for platforms. In fact, I caught a train at Salisbury a while ago from a platform I didn't even know existed when I had to change there one time, thankfully the guard on the FGW train made an announcement (as we were running slightly late and, I presume, there were others waiting for the London train starting at Salisbury) explaining roughly where Platform 6 was, and how to get there. (Back to the inaccuracies of the NRE diagrams, they show it as being on the same track as Platform 4, which it isn't!)