PRIV London Terminals - Zone U1256 LONDN

[Metrailway]

I know paper Priv day travelcards are no longer issued but is it still possible to buy a Priv rate London Terminals - Zone U1256 return?

If yes, would I be able to combine the Priv London Terminals - Zone U1256 return with a Priv Boundary Zone 6 - Destination XYZ or is that only allowed with travelcards?

 

[causton]

I don't know the first, but would hazard a guess at no but don't want to disappoint you too much! The second question is no - you can only combine a BZ6 with a Travelcard.

 

[bb21]

Staff travel discount is available with U-zone Train Tube cash fares (for example, London Terminals - Zone U1256 Londn Route Any Permitted). It is not available with Underground/DLR cash fares (for example, London Terminals - Zone U1256 Londn Route Via Undergrd/DLR) except for safeguarded staff.

 

[RJ]

I know paper Priv day travelcards are no longer issued but is it still possible to buy a Priv rate London Terminals - Zone U1256 return?

If yes, would I be able to combine the Priv London Terminals - Zone U1256 return with a Priv Boundary Zone 6 - Destination XYZ or is that only allowed with travelcards?

No, but you would be able to get a Priv Zone U1256 to Zone R6 plus the BZ extension, but only if you're safeguarded.

If you're not safeguarded, then the only Priv tickets you can use to get you on the Underground are those with a Maltese Cross in the route.

 

[Metrailway]

Thanks

I am safeguarded. I've got a PTAC.

I intend to travel to Banbury from Marylebone so just wanted to know whether such a ticket combination is valid.

So if I understand correctly, a priv ZONE U1245 LONDN to TRVCARD 5 (£3.70) combined with a priv Boundary Zone 5 to Banbury via High Wycombe (£5.65) would be possible and valid?

 

[RJ]

Yes, in accordance with Condition 19a of the NRCoC, which states that you are permitted to use two zonal tickets for one journey.

 

[Be3G]

So if I understand correctly, a priv ZONE U1245 LONDN to TRVCARD 5

May I ask, what exactly is this ticket, and for what sort of journey would it normally be issued? I'm familiar with Zone U**** tickets and their usage, but I've not encountered the TRVCARD destination before. Looking at brfares.com I see that the price for the ticket you're discussing is the same as a U1245 to Brimsdown (a zone 5 station), so is TRVCARD X a way of saying ‘any station in the specified zone’? If so, any of which kind of station: National Rail, London Underground, or both?

It's times like this I wish the fares manual PDFs were still available for download from National Rail Enquiries.

 

[barrykas]

Unfortunately, LU stopped doing PRIV Day Travelcards a few years ago, the only option now being to get paper Singles or have your discount loaded onto an Oyster card, though it's rumoured that the normal public caps apply!

Also, there are no such tickets as Zone U1245 - Trvcard 5 or Zone U1256 - Zone R6, despite what brfares.com may think! The only zonal combinations for 'in-boundary' Day Travelcards are Zones 1-2, 1-4, 1-6 or 1-9.

The issue with Marylebone - Banbury is that the timetable means there are only two split points that make any sense, unless you want to severely limit your choice of trains, namely Bicester North and High Wycombe.

Splitting at Bicester North only gives a price of £14.40 Day Return against £16.85 for the through ticket, splitting at High Wycombe only gives a price of £8.45, and splitting at both gives a price of £9.10.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Metrailway]

Unfortunately, LU stopped doing PRIV Day Travelcards a few years ago, the only option now being to get paper Singles or have your discount loaded onto an Oyster card, though it's rumoured that the normal public caps apply!

Also, there are no such tickets as Zone U1245 - Trvcard 5 or Zone U1256 - Zone R6, despite what brfares.com may think! The only zonal combinations for 'in-boundary' Day Travelcards are Zones 1-2, 1-4, 1-6 or 1-9.

The issue with Marylebone - Banbury is that the timetable means there are only two split points that make any sense, unless you want to severely limit your choice of trains, namely Bicester North and High Wycombe.

Splitting at Bicester North only gives a price of £14.40 Day Return against £16.85 for the through ticket, splitting at High Wycombe only gives a price of £8.45, and splitting at both gives a price of £9.10.

Cheers,

Barry

Ok thanks.

Coming back to my original question if I buy a London Terminals - Zone U1234* LONDN return (£2.65), which seems possible, presumably I can combine this with a Zone U5* LONDN - Banbury return (£6.25) to travel from Marylebone to Banbury on all trains including fast trains? It would only be 45p more expensive than a split at High Wycombe.

btw Judging by my experience, I'm pretty sure that a public cap applies to Priv Oyster.

 

[maniacmartin]

I don't think you can do that combination. The information published by ATOC is a bit vague, but from what I understand:

U1234* means to any station in zones 1234.
U5 means a station in zone 5. - So you would not be covered between the 2 stations

Similarly if your 2nd ticket was from Boundary Zone 5, this means the edge of zone 5, so you would not be covered for the distance between your chosen destination station in zones 1-4 and the zone 5/6 boundary. Even if it were a boundary zone 4 ticket, I still think there would be a gap, unless you passed through a station on the zone 4/5 boundary

Edit: This post has been amended after hairyhandedfool pointed out a stupid error

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Coming back to my original question if I buy a London Terminals - Zone U1234* LONDN return (£2.65), which seems possible, presumably I can combine this with a Zone U5* LONDN - Banbury return (£6.25) to travel from Marylebone to Banbury on all trains including fast trains? It would only be 45p more expensive than a split at High Wycombe....

The train would have to stop at the station where the tickets change over (NRCoC Condition 19b) and, as the tickets do not overlap, this is not possible.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

....Similarly if your 2nd ticket was from Boundary Zone 5, this means the edge of zone 5, so you would not be covered for the short distance between your chosen destination station in zones 1-4 and the zone4/5 boundary, unless your route passed through a station that straddled the boundary of zones 4 and 5

Boundary Zones are the outer edge of the zone, not the inner edge, so Boundary Zone 5 is the zone 5/6 border and Boundary Zone 4 is the zone 4/5 border.

 

[barrykas]

Coming back to my original question if I buy a London Terminals - Zone U1234* LONDN return (£2.65), which seems possible, presumably I can combine this with a Zone U5* LONDN - Banbury return (£6.25) to travel from Marylebone to Banbury on all trains including fast trains? It would only be 45p more expensive than a split at High Wycombe.

Unfortunately not, as a London Terminals to U1234 ticket would only be valid to an Underground or DLR station (and certain London Overground stations) in Zones 1-4. A ticket to one of the stations on the High Wycombe line would be issued specifically to or from that station, with the exception of a journey between South and West Ruislip where LU set the fares.

Examples given in The Manual are: Victoria - Balham (NR) - Morden (LU) would be issued as London Terminals - U1234 and Euston - Waterloo/Victoria (LU) - Clapham Junction (NR) would be issued as Zone U12 - Clapham Junction.

Tickets to joint stations, such as those on the Amersham line, can be issued as point-to-point or to a zonal destination, so you could do London Terminals - Harrow-on-the-Hill or London Terminals - Zone U1245 or even Zone U1245 - Harrow-on-the-Hill, for example.

 

[maniacmartin]

Boundary Zones are the outer edge of the zone, not the inner edge, so Boundary Zone 5 is the zone 5/6 border and Boundary Zone 4 is the zone 4/5 border.

Correct. I can't believe I made such a stupid error! Post amended.

Its not relevant in this case, but I'm informed boundary zones can also refer to the inner boundary instead, in the case where a passenger holds a Travelcard that doesn't include zone 1 and wishes to travel inwards. This type of ticket is, however, very rarely sold.

For example: If they held a Zone5-6 travelcard, they could buy a Boundary Zone 5 to U34* and use it to travel into zone 3.

 

[Metrailway]

Unfortunately not, as a London Terminals to U1234 ticket would only be valid to an Underground or DLR station (and certain London Overground stations) in Zones 1-4. A ticket to one of the stations on the High Wycombe line would be issued specifically to or from that station, with the exception of a journey between South and West Ruislip where LU set the fares.

Examples given in The Manual are: Victoria - Balham (NR) - Morden (LU) would be issued as London Terminals - U1234 and Euston - Waterloo/Victoria (LU) - Clapham Junction (NR) would be issued as Zone U12 - Clapham Junction.

Tickets to joint stations, such as those on the Amersham line, can be issued as point-to-point or to a zonal destination, so you could do London Terminals - Harrow-on-the-Hill or London Terminals - Zone U1245 or even Zone U1245 - Harrow-on-the-Hill, for example.

I forgot that a U1234 ticket is only valid to Underground/DLR stations!

If I buy a standard off-peak Z1-4 travelcard (£7.70) and combine it with a priv rate Boundary Zone 4 - Banbury (£5.65) would that be allowed? It would be cheaper than splitting at Bicester North and presumably give me the option of using non stop services.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I can't see a problem with that.

 

[Mojo]

Unfortunately, LU stopped doing PRIV Day Travelcards a few years ago, the only option now being to get paper Singles or have your discount loaded onto an Oyster card, though it's rumoured that the normal public caps apply!

This is correct. If you have one, you can however combine another discount and it will charge the lower of the two. For example, if you have a 1625 Railcard and the Priv discount loaded, you will pay the Priv rate for each single journey, up to the maximum of the Railcard Cap.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For example: If they held a Zone5-6 travelcard, they could buy a Boundary Zone 5 to U34* and use it to travel into zone 3.

Yes, but only on the Underground, as a ticket starting with U is only valid on LUL/DLR to a single destination in the appropriate zones. In reality, they would buy a £4.30 extension ticket from the Underground, which is the price of a Zone 2-4 single, which would also offer the appropriate validity.

 

[maniacmartin]

Unless they're travelling in the evening peak and want a railcard discount!

 

[34D]

Yes, but only on the Underground, as a ticket starting with U is only valid on LUL/DLR to a single destination in the appropriate zones. In reality, they would buy a £4.30 extension ticket from the Underground, which is the price of a Zone 2-4 single, which would also offer the appropriate validity.

But on the line in question (the two chiltern routes), 'underground stations' will include West Ruislip and Amersham presumably?

 

[Metrailway]

I travelled today to Banbury. When I asked for a Boundary Zone 4 - Banbury Priv return at the booking office in Marylebone, the booking office clerk issued a Wembley Stadium - Banbury priv return ticket. I queried him whether this was correct and he said that Wembley stadium is in Zone 4 so the ticket was valid.

Is he correct or should he have issued a Boundary Zone 4 - Banbury ticket?

 

[Eagle]

It's completely valid (and probably the same price) but it's definitely not what you asked for.

 

[RJ]

It's completely valid (and probably the same price) but it's definitely not what you asked for.

It's not a valid combination, regardless of whether or not the train stops there. The tickets need to cover the entire journey.

 

[causton]

Is it valid? I didn't think it was...

FCC like to do the same - issuing tickets from Hadley Wood rather than BZ6! In this instance it would be valid but only on trains calling there...

 

[RJ]

Just a case of clever staff giving you what they think you should have and not what you ask for. Very nice but unhelpful if some overexcited RPI pulls you and the TOC HQ wants to be pedantic and do you for not having a valid ticket. If you're given a ticket you didn't ask for, tell the issuer and get them to give you what you asked for.

 

[LexyBoy]

It's not a valid combination, regardless of whether or not the train stops there. The tickets need to cover the entire journey.

I'm stumped. Obviously it's not a valid combination with a non-season Z1-4 Travelcard on trains which don't stop, but why is it not valid if the train stops there?

 

[barrykas]

I'm stumped. Obviously it's not a valid combination with a non-season Z1-4 Travelcard on trains which don't stop, but why is it not valid if the train stops there?

The vast majority of Banbury trains don't stop at Wembley...I suspect the clerk may have thought they were doing the OP a favour, as the Anytime Day Return from Wembley to Banbury is £22.00, whereas the one from Boundary Zone 4 is £22.60.

Having said that, Chiltern's Revenue Protection staff tend to be fairly lenient in terms of what they'll accept, so I wouldn't anticipate any problems in using a combination involving named stations rather than "Boundary Zone <x>".

Doing some further digging, the Any Permitted fares from Boundary Zone 4, 5 and 6 to Banbury are priced not by Chiltern as you would expect, but by Great Western, with the Chiltern priced fares being route High Wycombe..

 

[Metrailway]

Just a case of clever staff giving you what they think you should have and not what you ask for. Very nice but unhelpful if some overexcited RPI pulls you and the TOC HQ wants to be pedantic and do you for not having a valid ticket. If you're given a ticket you didn't ask for, tell the issuer and get them to give you what you asked for.

I did ask him twice but he said it was valid so didn't push it. Anyway, my tickets were not checked on both legs of my journey so it didn't cause me problems. Generally, my experience with Chiltern staff (including RPIs) is very positive over the years.