Priv Tickets and Northern Rail

[pitdiver]

Can anybody advise what is Northern Rail's policy about not being able to purchase Priv Tkts from their machines. I am planning to travel from one of their stations that only has a TVM. When I rang their customer services number i was advised to go to a station that has a staffed ticket office. To do that I would have to catch a train so needing to by a ticket.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would have thought all you need to do get is get a Promise to Pay from the TVM and then buy on-board or when changing trains at a station with a ticket office (if time allows)? Just like anyone else who can't buy what they need from the TVM.

 

[Watershed]

RSTL's Where Can I Go guide refers:

How to buy a Priv-rate ticket, and what to do if this is not possible
At present it is not possible to buy Priv-rate tickets online, by phone, or from ticket machine

Where the station has a staffed ticket office, you must purchase a valid ticket before you start a journey, irrespective of the length of queue or wait time.

If the ticket office is closed and local ‘promise to pay’ tickets are available from vending machines you must obtain one before travelling.

If you board a train from a station with an open ticket office and have no ticket, or from a station where ‘promise to pay’ tickets are in use and you haven’t obtained a ‘promise to pay’, the train operator is within their right to refuse to sell you a Priv-rate ticket and report it as a Travel Irregularity.

Only if the ticket office is closed, and there is no local ‘promise to pay’ in use, can you buy a Priv-rate ticket on board a train. You must actively seek out staff on-board the train, have your fare ready and offer to pay it at the first available opportunity. By offering to pay there can be no question that you are trying to travel without paying.

Priv tickets can now be bought online if you've been sent registration details by RSTL, but the communications issued in connection with this have made clear that is purely a supplementary method of purchase and does not change the position set out above.

Whilst Northern's TVMs require you to attest that you will pay by cash to obtain a 'Promise to Pay Notice', you can still pay by card (and indeed I imagine the vast majority of guards etc. would prefer this) in the above situation.

 

[pitdiver]

I would have thought all you need to do get is get a Promise to Pay from the TVM and then buy on-board or when changing trains at a station with a ticket office (if time allows)? Just like anyone else who can't buy what they need from the TVM.

Thanks for the info. I have never travelled from a unstaffed Northern Rail stn so wasn't aware that Promise To Pay were available. In addition the journey I am considering does not include a change of trains.

 

[RPI]

I've generally found Northern guards quite amenable in situations like this, however to cover all bases it may pay to obtain a promise to pay and approach the guard at the earliest opportunity - you're not obliged to do so as you would have been unable to purchase the ticket you require before boarding, but if, like me, you end up quite anxious in this situation then it makes for a less stressful experience!

The other option is to use the RSTL staff website to purchase your priv ticket, you can either then download an E Ticket to your phone/tablet or opt for a TOD to collect from a TVM.

 

[D6130]

Whilst Northern's TVMs require you to attest that you will pay by cash to obtain a 'Promise to Pay Notice', you can still pay by card (and indeed I imagine the vast majority of guards etc. would prefer this) in the above situation.

At the time that we left the UK for Italy (8th May), 'Promise to Pay' tickets were no longer available from the TVMs at Hebden Bridge....and, for all I know, other Northern TVMs as well.

 

[pitdiver]

RSTL's Where Can I Go guide refers:


Priv tickets can now be bought online if you've been sent registration details by RSTL, but the communications issued in connection with this have made clear that is purely a supplementary method of purchase and does not change the position set out above.

Whilst Northern's TVMs require you to attest that you will pay by cash to obtain a 'Promise to Pay Notice', you can still pay by card (and indeed I imagine the vast majority of guards etc. would prefer this) in the above situation.

My PTAC is issued by TfL so i don't get any information from RSTL

 

[RPI]

At the time that we left the UK for Italy (8th May), 'Promise to Pay' tickets were no longer available from the TVMs at Hebden Bridge....and, for all I know, other Northern TVMs as well.

I'm not familiar with the area, but is Hebden Bridge a staffed station? If so then the promise to pay probably wouldn't be available whilst the ticket office is open as you can pay by cash there.

 

[SteveM70]

At the time that we left the UK for Italy (8th May), 'Promise to Pay' tickets were no longer available from the TVMs at Hebden Bridge....and, for all I know, other Northern TVMs as well.

They should only be available when the ticket office is unmanned surely? Was it when you were there?

 

[D6130]

I'm not familiar with the area, but is Hebden Bridge a staffed station? If so then the promise to pay probably wouldn't be available whilst the ticket office is open as you can pay by cash there.

Yes, it's currently a staffed station....but the last couple of times that I've tried to obtain a P2P ticket when the ticket office has been unexpectedly closed due to staff shortage they have been unavailable, thus exposing a glitch in the system.

 

[Watershed]

My PTAC is issued by TfL so i don't get any information from RSTL

Fair enough - it's all on the RSTL website though. And I see no reason why it would be any different for PTAC holders.

 

[SteveM70]

Yes, it's currently a staffed station....but the last couple of times that I've tried to obtain a P2P ticket when the ticket office has been unexpectedly closed due to staff shortage they have been unavailable, thus exposing a glitch in the system.

What *should* happen is that if the ticket office isn’t manned during advertised opening hours, someone somewhere flicks a switch to put the TVM into unstaffed mode. No idea how reliably this is done though

 

[pitdiver]

Fair enough - it's all on the RSTL website though. And I see no reason why it would be any different for PTAC holders.

Thats what I thought so I have printed off the paragraph from the RSTL website relating to purchasing Priv Tkts

 

[yorkie]

Can anybody advise what is Northern Rail's policy about not being able to purchase Priv Tkts from their machines. I am planning to travel from one of their stations that only has a TVM. When I rang their customer services number i was advised to go to a station that has a staffed ticket office. To do that I would have to catch a train so needing to by a ticket.

Sadly you cannot rely on customer services to give an accurate answer. They are simply wrong.

You may board the train and purchase at the first opportunity; this may be on board the train. If your journey involves a change of trains, it may be possible to buy at the interchange (i.e. if the ticket office is staffed and you have time to do so without missing an onward connection), or it may be possible on a subsequent train, or at the destination.

There is no requirement to make a separate journey to a staffed ticket office.

 

[bramling]

Can anybody advise what is Northern Rail's policy about not being able to purchase Priv Tkts from their machines. I am planning to travel from one of their stations that only has a TVM. When I rang their customer services number i was advised to go to a station that has a staffed ticket office. To do that I would have to catch a train so needing to by a ticket.

I have never had a problem with buying a PRIV ticket from the guard on Northern (indeed it’s highly likely you won’t be charged at all).

But this does introduce problems if travelling to somewhere where there is a revenue block, especially somewhere like Piccadilly, and likewise if the guard doesn’t come round for whatever reason.

Personally I would board without a ticket, but try as hard as possible to seek out the guard.

 

[TUC]

RSTL's Where Can I Go guide refers:




Whilst Northern's TVMs require you to attest that you will pay by cash to obtain a 'Promise to Pay Notice', you can still pay by card (and indeed I imagine the vast majority of guards etc. would prefer this) in the above situation.

Why would the TVMs require you to attest that you will pay by cash? Surely all that matters is that you will pay, not how payment is made?

 

[SteveM70]

Why would the TVMs require you to attest that you will pay by cash? Surely all that matters is that you will pay, not how payment is made?

Because it’s yet more badly worded railway information. It should really say “not by card” or similar

 

[skyhigh]

What *should* happen is that if the ticket office isn’t manned during advertised opening hours, someone somewhere flicks a switch to put the TVM into unstaffed mode. No idea how reliably this is done though

No. They were originally configured that if there was a ticket office, promise to pay coupons would never be available from any machine at that station. They are now set that they will offer them at the scheduled times the ticket office is shut.

Staff at the station have no control over the machines offering them, there's no switch in the ticket office.

 

[bkhtele]

I would have thought all you need to do get is get a Promise to Pay from the TVM and then buy on-board or when changing trains at a station with a ticket office (if time allows)? Just like anyone else who can't buy what they need from the TVM.

Agreed, worked yesterday on Northern service to Chester, guard said obtain a promise to pay

 

[RJ]

Theory vs real life, in all my years as rail staff I’ve found Northern guards’ customer service to be exemplary without exception and never had any kind of problem with Priv tickets with them. In fact it’s the same with the guards on all regional type services in the UK. Honestly, there’s nothing to worry about.

 

[pitdiver]

Theory vs real life, in all my years as rail staff I’ve found Northern guards’ customer service to be exemplary without exception and never had any kind of problem with Priv tickets with them. In fact it’s the same with the guards on all regional type services in the UK. Honestly, there’s nothing to worry about.

I am not worried. It's just it will be the first time travelling on Northern. Used to travelling on Thameslink and they could be "difficult"
As I said earlier I have a PTAC issued by TfL. I'm not sure whether they are common in Northern Land.

 

[philthetube]

They are common enough, I retired to the north and have never had an issue.

 

[pitdiver]

They are common enough, I retired to the north and have never had an issue.

Thanks for the info where in the north did your retire to rough area will do. I'm in the Worksop area