Problems booking a ticket from Shepperton to Tonbridge via Waterloo

Status
Not open for further replies.

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
3,687
Can anybody help me with getting the best fare for this, I am getting odd results from the new SWT/SWR and Southeastern websites.

I will be travelling from Shepperton on SW to Waterloo to join a SER train from Waterloo to Tonbridge. I do have a network SE Card. It shows an Off Peak fare of about £ 22.00 or a standard return of about £ 34.00, but I am not sure if the £ 22.00 will allow me to travel on the 1827 connecting at Waterloo as that may be a peak fare train. I was looking at getting the 1610 train from Shepperton and may be stopping off quickly at Wimbledon.

On the above websites, they give connections only via Wimbledon & Herne Hill outbound and Via RedHill and Clapham Jct on the way back and don't mention Waterloo at all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
2,562
Looking forward to it.

By the way, can anybody help me with getting the best fare for this, I am getting odd results from the new SWT/SWR and Southeastern websites.

I will be travelling from Shepperton on SW to Waterloo to join you on the 1827 SER train. I do have a network SE Card. It shows an Off Peak fare of about £ 22.00 or a standard return of about £ 34.00, but I am not sure if the £ 22.00 will allow me to travel on the 1827 connecting at Waterloo as that may be a peak fare train. I was looking at getting the 1610 train from Shepperton and may be stopping off quickly at Wimbledon.

On the above websites, they give connections only via Wimbledon & Herne Hill outbound and Via RedHill and Clapham Jct on the way back and don't mention Waterloo at all.

All you need is the Off-Peak Day Return. It's valid via Waterloo (it normally would be of course, it's just that trains are diverted and I think some journey planners are struggling). There are no evening peak restrictions on SE trains, so you are valid on any train out of Waterloo (and back).
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
2,562
All you need is the Off-Peak Day Return. It's valid via Waterloo (it normally would be of course, it's just that trains are diverted and I think some journey planners are struggling). There are no evening peak restrictions on SE trains, so you are valid on any train out of Waterloo (and back).

Having done a bit more digging I can see the problem you are having.

Normally the journey would be: Train from Shepperton - Waterloo; walk from Waterloo to Waterloo East; train from Waterloo East to Tonbridge. You can see this on every website on a date such as 6th September, when there are no works.

However, Fujitsu RIBS (e.g. on TrainGenius or Raileasy) is showing journeys via (and changing at) Wimbledon, Herne Hill and Orpington OR via (and changing at) Clapham Junction and Redhill. Putting in "via London Waterloo" just gets no fares found.

Trainline does similar behaviour (it now uses its own journey planning engine).

Worldline (I used the Chiltern site) shows trains with just one change (at EITHER Waterloo OR Clapham Junction). Via Waterloo only 1st class fares are apparently valid; via Clapham Junction, everything. After 16.40 on the outward journey it starts planning routes with more changes via Herne Hill instead, possibly because they are a couple of minutes quicker. You can force all the journeys to go via Waterloo though, in which case only 1st class fares are available.

Bear in mind this is an unusual route for 1st class fares - they are route "Any Permitted", while all Standard Class fares are route "Not valid on HS1" (and are are also "Not Underground" for the cross London marker). Still, I can't see why that makes any real difference in this case - the SE train that is diverted to start from Waterloo is in fact the same SE train you could ordinarily catch from Waterloo East.

There is probably an easement somewhere that is causing this to happen. Or journey planners are not interpreting stuff well.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
54,631
Location
Yorkshire
It's a similar issue to the St Pancras to Tonbridge issue; the mapped routes from Shepperton to Tonbridge via London are all the permitted routes from Shepperton to London, plus all the permitted routes from London to Tonbridge.

Unfortunately the exact route taken by the direct London Waterloo to Tonbridge trains in question is via a route that is not a mapped route.

This doesn't cause problems for people who book specifically from Waterloo; the through trains rule means that it's valid regardless of the route taken.

But you can't get an itinerary from Shepperton to Tonbridge with a simple change at London Waterloo.

The ticket will, of course, be accepted, and is contractually valid regardless of the ridiculous situation which prevents booking sites issuing such an itinerary.

I believe this is because ATOC have reduced the number of routes on each map, and have increased the number of maps to compensate, however thorough testing was not done (is it ever?), and so they have removed some reasonable routes. Hopefully the mapped routes will be restored soon.

ATOC's actions in tinkering with the mapped routes causes big problems for customers, and also penalises online booking sites, as it means passengers are more likely to go to ticket offices where the booking clerk would happily issue the ticket, and without checking the routeing guide, would (correctly) deem Shepperton to Tonbridge via Waterloo, or St Pancras to Tonbridge via East Croydon, as obviously permitted.

ATOC need to fully consult passengers, train companies and third party suppliers, before they undertake any actions that may potentially reduce the number of permitted routes.
 

Romilly

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2013
Messages
1,712
There are no trains to Waterloo East and London Charing Cross this week. But if I search on the C2C site for a random afternoon next week, and put Waterloo in as a "via" point, I get itineraries for the OP's preferred routeing and times: £14.85 offpeak day return with network railcard discount.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top