Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[800001]

I may be wrong, but I think the 805s have different engines to the 800s and 802s (I think they have the 810 engines), which would explain the different subclass there (yes, I know that the 158s have different engines within the same class, but TOPS is inconsistent).

I don’t really know why 807s are classified as such, I don’t know if they have backup diesel generators like the 801s, but if they do, then presumably the fact they weren’t procured under IEP would explain the classification (as stated by @LNW-GW Joint); otherwise, I don’t see any reason as to why they aren’t classified as 803s (I remember hearing somewhere that they need some sort of weight in place of the engines, so they went for batteries).

807 are pure electric with no back up GU.

 

[AJDesiro]

807 are pure electric with no back up GU.

Do they have batteries for hotel power then, like the 803s? If so, I don’t understand why they aren’t just classed as 803s.

 

[Benjwri]

There are differences between the 800-803 class however

800 - bog standard
801 - less engines, designed to be an EMU
802 - bigger engines than standard 800 designed for longer operations on diesel
803 - pure electric, batteries onboard without the power to provide traction but to keep things such as lights etc going

i agree putting the 805s and 807s into a different class ie 805s are basically the same as 800s and 807s are basically 801s, but keeping the first 4 separate is key

off topic but oh well

The numbering isn’t to do with engines, although there are slight differences between classes.

For example GWR 800s and 802 engines now output the same.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Morning

Looks like the Class 805s are testing again along the North Wales coast from Rhyl to Chester overnight tonight.

Dave

Realtime Trains | 5Q31 2242 Oxley Car. M.D. to Rhyl | 14/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q31 2242 departure from Oxley Car. M.D. to Rhyl on 14/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q32 0035 Rhyl to Chester | 15/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q32 0035 departure from Rhyl to Chester on 15/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q33 0115 Chester to Rhyl | 15/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q33 0115 departure from Chester to Rhyl on 15/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q34 0155 Rhyl to Chester | 15/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q34 0155 departure from Rhyl to Chester on 15/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q35 0320 Chester to Rhyl | 15/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q35 0320 departure from Chester to Rhyl on 15/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q36 0400 Rhyl to Chester | 15/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q36 0400 departure from Rhyl to Chester on 15/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q37 0436 Chester to Rhyl | 15/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q37 0436 departure from Chester to Rhyl on 15/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q38 0525 Rhyl to Oxley Car. M.D. | 15/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q38 0525 departure from Rhyl to Oxley Car. M.D. on 15/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[D6975]

There are differences between the 800-803 class however

800 - bog standard
801 - less engines, designed to be an EMU
802 - bigger engines than standard 800 designed for longer operations on diesel
803 - pure electric, batteries onboard without the power to provide traction but to keep things such as lights etc going

i agree putting the 805s and 807s into a different class ie 805s are basically the same as 800s and 807s are basically 801s, but keeping the first 4 separate is key

off topic but oh well

Wrong!
800s and 802s have the same engines. The thing that's bigger on the 802s is the fuel tanks.

ps When delivered 802s were more powerful than 800s, but this was purely down to the engine management software. This has now been changed so the whole fleet runs the same software

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wrong!
800s and 802s have the same engines. The thing that's bigger on the 802s is the fuel tanks.

The 800's engines were derated to a lower power level for more longevity/reduced maintenance, but were the same physical engines. This has since changed.

 

[hexagon789]

This has since changed.

Except on LNER, where the engines still derate normally.

The 805s will be the same, with the (full rating) 735kW engines derating to 560kW.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 805s will be the same, with the (full rating) 735kW engines derating to 560kW.

Presumably this is because the North Wales Coast and the Marches are low speed lines so there's no need for 125 on diesel?

 

[Danfilm007]

According to LinkedIn, Avanti have officially accepted their first 805 today.

Avanti West Coast on LinkedIn: Another exciting milestone. Thank you to Hitachi for all your hard work so…

Another exciting milestone. Thank you to Hitachi for all your hard work so far We’re looking forward to working with our friends at Alstom and Rock Rail…

www.linkedin.com

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably this is because the North Wales Coast and the Marches are low speed lines so there's no need for 125 on diesel?

Presumably, as those routes are 90mph max.

 

[800001]

According to LinkedIn, Avanti have officially accepted their first 805 today.

Avanti West Coast on LinkedIn: Another exciting milestone. Thank you to Hitachi for all your hard work so…

Another exciting milestone. Thank you to Hitachi for all your hard work so far We’re looking forward to working with our friends at Alstom and Rock Rail…

www.linkedin.com

I believe it was accepted on 08th August.

 

[Danfilm007]

I believe it was accepted on 08th August.

That'll teach me to listen to LinkedIn...

 

[theblackwatch]

Can confirm that 805002 was accepted by Rock Rail on August 8th.

 

[Basher]

One on test at Carlisle 16 May

 

[Welshguy1048]

Morning.

Looks like the 805's are on testing runs between Rhyl and Chester overnight tonight.

Dave

Realtime Trains | 5Q31 2242 Oxley Car. M.D. to Rhyl | 21/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q31 2242 departure from Oxley Car. M.D. to Rhyl on 21/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q32 0035 Rhyl to Chester | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q32 0035 departure from Rhyl to Chester on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q33 0115 Chester to Rhyl | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q33 0115 departure from Chester to Rhyl on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q34 0155 Rhyl to Chester | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q34 0155 departure from Rhyl to Chester on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q35 0320 Chester to Rhyl | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q35 0320 departure from Chester to Rhyl on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q36 0431 Chester to Oxley Car. M.D. | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q36 0431 departure from Chester to Oxley Car. M.D. on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[800001]

807002 due back out on test this evening from Merchant Park to Doncaster then back to Darlington etc.

Path from RTT below:-

Realtime Trains | 5Q10 2213 Merchant Park Sidings to Doncaster | 21/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q10 2213 departure from Merchant Park Sidings to Doncaster on 21/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[david.stannard]

Morning.

Looks like the 805's are on testing runs between Rhyl and Chester overnight tonight.

Dave

Realtime Trains | 5Q31 2242 Oxley Car. M.D. to Rhyl | 21/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q31 2242 departure from Oxley Car. M.D. to Rhyl on 21/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q32 0035 Rhyl to Chester | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q32 0035 departure from Rhyl to Chester on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q33 0115 Chester to Rhyl | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q33 0115 departure from Chester to Rhyl on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q34 0155 Rhyl to Chester | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q34 0155 departure from Rhyl to Chester on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q35 0320 Chester to Rhyl | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q35 0320 departure from Chester to Rhyl on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q36 0431 Chester to Oxley Car. M.D. | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q36 0431 departure from Chester to Oxley Car. M.D. on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

These overnight North Wales test workings on 21st/22nd August were apparently cut short, with 5Q36 returning to Oxley from Chester at 02:43 rather than 04:30 asplanned. Does anyone know the identity of the set(s) involved?

 

[Welshguy1048]

These overnight North Wales test workings on 21st/22nd August were apparently cut short, with 5Q36 returning to Oxley from Chester at 02:43 rather than 04:30 asplanned. Does anyone know the identity of the set(s) involved?

805001 and 805003

Video on my YouTube channel - Dave(DH Trains)

Dave

805001 and 805003

Video on my YouTube channel - Dave(DH Trains)

Dave

Class 805 on test along the North Wales Coast - Oxley Car M.D to Rhyl

 

[JW4]

Double 805 ran from Crewe to Euston via West Mids today, saw them pass by waiting for a train back from Stechford

Realtime Trains | 5Q71 0934 Crewe to London Euston | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q71 0934 departure from Crewe to London Euston on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[william.martin]

Double 805 ran from Crewe to Euston via West Mids today, saw them pass by waiting for a train back from Stechford

Realtime Trains | 5Q71 0934 Crewe to London Euston | 22/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q71 0934 departure from Crewe to London Euston on 22/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Why did it go the long way from Birmingham to Wolverhampton ?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Why did it go the long way from Birmingham to Wolverhampton ?

Is that route [via Bescot] a diversion route? Seems like a useful route for them to test them on.

 

[AJDesiro]

Is that route [via Bescot] a diversion route? Seems like a useful route for them to test them on.

Yes, Avanti regularly diverts via Bescot, in a number of circumstances, but usually when the direct line between Wolverhampton and Birmingham is blocked, they recently diverted via Stechford-Aston and Bescot when the Trent Valley line was closed too, in order to avoid Birmingham.

There are also a few ECS moves via Bescot too, for moves from Oxley.

 

[DaveyJones]

Why did it go the long way from Birmingham to Wolverhampton ?

Looking at the timings, it was booked via Bescot, but actually went on the stour

 

[800001]

Why did it go the long way from Birmingham to Wolverhampton ?

Best path available?

 

[Welshguy1048]

More test runs of the Class 805s along the North Wales Coast tonight - if they run.

They all got cancelled last night.

More test runs of the Class 805s along the North Wales Coast tonight - if they run.

They all got cancelled last night

805001 and 805003 test run at Prestatyn, North Wales

 

[60159]

Just seen 4 805s on Oxley. 02 and 04 seen. Can I presume the other 2 (joined) were 01 and 03 on the basis no others are out!
TIA.

 

[AJDesiro]

Just seen 4 805s on Oxley. 02 and 04 seen. Can I presume the other 2 (joined) were 01 and 03 on the basis no others are out!
TIA.

Yes, 001 and 003 are commonly seen as a pair.

 

[60159]

Yes, 001 and 003 are commonly seen as a pair.

Many thanks.

 

[tasky]

does anyone know if these will be doing 125mph regularly on the WCML despite lack of tilt?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

does anyone know if these will be doing 125mph regularly on the WCML despite lack of tilt?

Yes, but with a different speed profile to the 390/221 tilters (south of Weaver Jn; 110mph limit north of there).
The details, and the signs to match on the route itself, have yet to appear.
125mph non-tilt will be over a more limited distance than EPS.
Supposedly, the current timetable applies to the new trains and already allows for their new speed profile.