Even though HS2 has been scaled back I still don't expect any 390 replacements to be tilting trains. As I understand it that would mean Alstom would need to rewrite TASS, and any other manufacturer would need to adopt it or create their own form of tilt signalling. Plus tilting trains are heavier and it seems a lot of operators don't think of them as a worthy investment even without phase 1 of HS2 removing some of the curves. This includes the present 805s which could possibly be approved for 125mph running without tilt.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets
- Thread starter Hey 3
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
HamworthyGoods
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Jan 2019
- Messages
- 4,054
Yes but not for a smaller loading gauge.
nwales58
Member
There is one off-the-shelf 360 km/h (passive) tilt train with a current production line. As it has end rather than distributed power, slimming the coaches for our loading gauge might not be too hard. OTOH its floor height would be a challenge for the UK. Talgo. OK, their deliveries range from late to very very late, but WCML could be desperate and DfT is mug enough to fall for another 'innovative', flexible solution.
Andy Pacer
Established Member
The 805s are certainly very heavy on the automated announcements.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
They already are, just no relevant sections on the WCML passed operational yet.
I went on one today that was rotating between blue, green, yellow and red, on all the reservation screens, for the entire journey.
Quality.
Tie that with a very keen guard, and you end up with 6 minutes solid of talking on departure.
What’s the blue light for?
No idea. It was just a blue light and a plain blue screen. Didn't show any information at any point in the journey.
That holds with what I saw this afternoon, didn't get beyond 110.
More critically though, the service I got from HHD was supposed to be a double 805, but in the end ran as a 5-car due to 'the two units not playing nicely with each other' according to staff on board. Not exactly reassuring, and meant that the service departed 30 down, losing more time due to severe overcrowding - a lot of local journeys, not sure if another ATW service was cancelled as well this afternoon.
It's a feature of the WCML timetable (inc. N.Wales) that some long distance trains have to carry local passengers too. There isn't a policy of separating them, presumably because it's cheaper not to. My particular bugbear is Crewe-Warrington-Wigan which is served only by Avanti (the only part of the WCML where this is the case) so the Pendos carry quite a lot of a short-hop local passengers. This includes even the London-Glasgow trains which you might think should not have to do this.
Railperf
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 3,004
It has been mentioned before that we could do with a stopping service from Crewe to Wigan and Preston. So it seems the power supply issue north of Crewe is probably preventing additional services being offered.
And it isn't clear whether Crewe has the capacity to be a terminus for trains to/ from the North in terms of platform capacity and pathing.
In the meantime, analysis by the Railway Performance Society has revealed quite a high percentage of 805's running in diesel mode between Crewe and Holyhead were already running with an engine out in the first fortnight of operation with a slight improvement in the situation during the second fortnight. Frustratingly this is disappointing for brand new trains which have had several years to have had the systems tweaked and improved! It was reported that a set was even running on a single engine!
Last edited:
If it was running on a single engine, then failures of the others happened while in service. (Not that it makes it any better).
As it would not be allowed off a depot with only 1 engine operational.
Last edited:
Railperf
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 3,004
No- one is claiming any set entered a diagram on one engine, but it certainly ended the day that way and IIRC was terminated before the end of the diagram.
I think the 309s were considered for this, but I understand that something like the absence of central door locking stopped it. A second hourly Birmingham to Preston train would be a godsend. Not a "stopping service" as such, just duplicating the class 9s - although I guess they could call additionally at Newton-le-Willows or Earlestown. Maybe Hartford (and Leyland?) too if the unit's acceleration was good enough..?
I do remember a talk back in APT days in which it was said that Warrington to Wigan (Standish) was the critical pinch point for WCML capacity, which is why the Whelley line was being safeguarded. MGR Freight has gone now, so maybe finding paths wouldn't be such a problem.
Anymore than 1 GU out and it’s a failure.
And I never said it did, did I?
Mearly stating a fact, and not disputing at all that it was on one engine!
Railperf
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 3,004
If there isn't enough electrical power to support Avanti's proposed 2nd Liverpool service, then that clearly limits any additional electric services you might wish to run. As it is veering slightly OT is this worth separating into a new topic?
All depends how much power 730s utilise versus Avanti 807? Maybe sufficient for 730s
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Another variation for 1D80 today (0530 Birmingham-Holyhead, double 805 ECS from Oxley, then forming 0853 Holyhead-Euston).
Often it is cancelled throughout, sometimes it reaches Crewe before being cancelled westwards.
Today it was ECS Oxley to Stafford to pick up its diagram there at 0604.
This might be the first time a service 805 has run via the Stafford Road curve at Wolverhampton - they normally are booked to reverse in Wolverhampton station.
So presumably the train is in reverse formation.
At least it has delivered a service west of Crewe today.
Often it is cancelled throughout, sometimes it reaches Crewe before being cancelled westwards.
Today it was ECS Oxley to Stafford to pick up its diagram there at 0604.
This might be the first time a service 805 has run via the Stafford Road curve at Wolverhampton - they normally are booked to reverse in Wolverhampton station.
So presumably the train is in reverse formation.
At least it has delivered a service west of Crewe today.
I took my first ride on one of these today from Rugby up to Birmingham New Street.
Generally, a significant improvement on the voyagers. Window alignment is very good, the acceleration is excellent (yet very smooth starts from stations) and a generally more pleasant ambience than the voyagers.
That said, the barrage of automated announcements is certainly rather unpleasant. Why did they decide to make them so loud? The ceiling is noticeably vibrating due to the excessive volume. They also seem much longer than necessary. This was particularly noticeable on the approach into Birmingham International where we received a detailed account of where to go for the NEC and the Airport. Quite why the TM decided to repeat the entire announcement manually I have no idea.
Turn down and tone down the announcements and I have very little to complain about.
Generally, a significant improvement on the voyagers. Window alignment is very good, the acceleration is excellent (yet very smooth starts from stations) and a generally more pleasant ambience than the voyagers.
That said, the barrage of automated announcements is certainly rather unpleasant. Why did they decide to make them so loud? The ceiling is noticeably vibrating due to the excessive volume. They also seem much longer than necessary. This was particularly noticeable on the approach into Birmingham International where we received a detailed account of where to go for the NEC and the Airport. Quite why the TM decided to repeat the entire announcement manually I have no idea.
Turn down and tone down the announcements and I have very little to complain about.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2016
- Messages
- 5,361
Facilities on the 14:48 Holyhead to London Euston due 18:35.
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 10 between Holyhead and Chester
First 807 in traffic?
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 10 between Holyhead and Chester
First 807 in traffic?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
An 807 couldn't operate between Holyhead and Chester, it has no diesel or batteries.
RTT seems to indicate it's 221103 + 221108 but it may well only be one of them if a short form has happened.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If it's a double Voyager is this because the back 3 coaches are manually locked out as far as Chester due to short platforms?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Most days this runs as a double Voyager and I've never seen that message until now, but that seems like pretty spot on logic.
Not been on one yet, but the windows look a lot bigger than Voyagers, is this the case?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Wider but not deeper (being spaced for First Class they're very similar in size to the windows on loco hauled/HST Mk3s, but a bit lower down). Overall they feel more spacious, though, as they don't have a tilt profile.
As others have said an 807 is all electric, and none have been accepted by Avanti.
All built 807s are currently at the Hitachi factory.
DaveyJones
Member
There is a possession which prevents the Empty stock from reaching Birmingham New Street.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Most London-Glasgow trains are first stop Warrington, so they won't be carrying passengers from Crewe.
They look deeper to me, but hey-ho.
Last edited: