It did very briefly, then stopped.AIUI - it has…
It did very briefly, then stopped.AIUI - it has…
Like all good railway systems TASS is the tilt activation and speed sensor system fitted on the Pendolinos. Which activated the tilt system on the coaches. The speed sensor bit checks that the correct speed is used by the train on curves. A bit like a black box The train picks up the information from track mounted units and ensured the correct amount of tilt is applied and the train does not overdeed
It’s not just on curves, the speed supervised function monitors the speed at all times on Tass fitted lines.Like all good railway systems TASS is the tilt activation and speed sensor system fitted on the Pendolinos. Which activated the tilt system on the coaches. The speed sensor bit checks that the correct speed is used by the train on curves. A bit like a black box The train picks up the information from track mounted units and ensured the correct amount of tilt is applied and the train does not overdeed
Which technological developments would those be?Pendos are quite heavy, if they were ever to look at another tilting train I'd assume they'd look at a newer design that is lighter due to some more technological advancements since the first development of the Pendolinos.
They'll be heavy compared to a non tilt version yes, but lighter yet stronger materials, better mechanical layouts that use less parts all reduce weight and in 20 or so years since first development I'm quite sure there's been weight reductions.Which technological developments would those be?
The tilt gear weights circa 8 tonnes per vehicle and having tilt mechanisms fitted is mutually exclusive so several ways manufacturers have used to reduce weight.
Tilt vehicles will always be heavy...
Apparently Alstom will not consider re-writing it for another train design.Appreciate the info about what TASS does, though to be fair I already had an understanding of that. Why 'obselete' though?
*I'll ask a mod to split this out to a new infra thread as it's not so much about the new stock.
The potential for tilt mechanism weight reduction is tiny, the elephant in the room you seem to be missing is that many weight reductions achieved on other rolling stock in the intervening years (*including 805s and 807s*) are incompatible with tilt functionality hence the weight difference been tilt and non-tilt is increasing (despite you optimism for tiny tilt mechanism weight reductions, the non tilt and incompatible with tilt are far larger) allowing far better acceleration, braking and energy performance for the non-tilt stock especially if it does more stops.They'll be heavy compared to a non tilt version yes, but lighter yet stronger materials, better mechanical layouts that use less parts all reduce weight and in 20 or so years since first development I'm quite sure there's been weight reductions.
Appreciate the info about what TASS does, though to be fair I already had an understanding of that. Why 'obselete' though?
*I'll ask a mod to split this out to a new infra thread as it's not so much about the new stock.
Equivalent functionality could be implemented on routes with ETCS in use using the onboard ETCS equipment.Apparently Alstom will not consider re-writing it for another train design.
It's unique to the UK because of the WCML loading gauge restrictions, and any future order for tilting trains would not fund the software development.
It's not obsolete in the sense of being dead or unmaintainable, but Alstom are saying it has no future - its focus will be on ETCS.
Usage of TASS will also decline when the WCML Voyagers are transferred away.
I'm quite aware that non tilt trains are indeed offering much better weight reductions than tilt. I however was simple stating(regardless of measure) that there would be reductions in weight for newer tilt trains vs their older counterparts in the last 20 years.The potential for tilt mechanism weight reduction is tiny, the elephant in the room you seem to be missing is that many weight reductions achieved on other rolling stock in the intervening years (*including 805s and 807s*) are incompatible with tilt functionality hence the weight difference been tilt and non-tilt is increasing (despite you optimism for tiny tilt mechanism weight reductions, the non tilt and incompatible with tilt are far larger) allowing far better acceleration, braking and energy performance for the non-tilt stock especially if it does more stops.
Speed limits around the big hills on the northern WCML are limited by friction braking capabilities is rheostatic or regen braking isn't functional so you can actually have higher max speeds down (and hence up to before hand) with lighter not tilt units.
Many engineers have done lots of modelling and have reached the conclusion that currently tilt is not the way to go.
Equivalent functionality could be implemented on routes with ETCS in use using the onboard ETCS equipment.
Good to hear, hopefully introduction won’t be too far away then!Got gen from a Wolverhampton driver yesterday who informed me about this for today. A 'training train' started to operate from this week. This morning Oxley - Euston. Euston - Crewe and Crewe - Oxley with 805009.
Some days also have a PM diagram which operates basically the same as above but in reverse.
Does that mean driver training has commenced?Got gen from a Wolverhampton driver yesterday who informed me about this for today. A 'training train' started to operate from this week. This morning Oxley - Euston. Euston - Crewe and Crewe - Oxley with 805009.
Some days also have a PM diagram which operates basically the same as above but in reverse.
Fingers crossed it goes with what the Managing Director said which was that they are hoping for a summer introduction.Good to hear, hopefully introduction won’t be too far away then!
805s/807s running on the Euston-Birmingham semi-fast (xx:21 from Birmingham and xx:16 from Euston), with some of those also extending to Blackpool. The Blackpool via the Trent Valley service is also looking to be run by 805s/807s. 807s on 1tph to Liverpool, with an additional train per hour being run by a 390. 805s to North Wales.Just to confirm what is the plan for the 805/807s;
Assuming 805s on N Wales and some Birminghams? 807 on Liverpool and Blackpool?
Cheers
805s/807s running on the Euston-Birmingham semi-fast (xx:21 from Birmingham and xx:16 from Euston), with some of those also extending to Blackpool. The Blackpool via the Trent Valley service is also looking to be run by 805s/807s.
What's wrong with the Avanti 80x? They've got the same seats as the refurbished 390s, except with more bays and better window alignment. Long distance 730s are just 350s with the 730/0 seats except wider and with armrests, alongside a declassified first class section with the 197 variant of the Fainsa Sophia, they also won't run to Birmingham from London, and won't always be on the Trent Valley.All I can say is thank god that avanti already feature full info on rtt, I'll be avoiding 80x booked services where ever possible or indeed switching my custom away to wmr assuming the long distance version of the 730 is decent or indeed using Chiltern if they finally do the decent thing and scrap the clubman fleet in favor of something better
Dunno, apparently the plans have changed. There's plenty of slower 80x paths going to Blackpool though.When did that become the case? I didn't think they were going to be used north of Weaver at all.
Think the plans are to run two units together. One for North Wales and the other for Blackpool splitting at Crewe.The plans were always to run 80x to Preston (and Blackpool) as well as Liverpool.
The non-tilt MU speed profile won't go north of Weaver Jn though.
And in the March Modern Railways, it says that the MU profile will be implemented in two phases, Euston-Rugby first, then Rugby-Weaver Jn.
That would fit with introduction to Birmingham first.
Prior to the pandemic there were a few Blackpool North to London Euston via Trent Valley Pendolino services, I was under the impression that these would be replaced by 807s with the same calling pattern, unless the plan has changed with the WCML recast and the paths for such a service are no longer available.Think the plans are to run two units together. One for North Wales and the other for Blackpool splitting at Crewe.
Two 7 cars units would be too long for platforms However a 7 and 5 car could just about fit platforms
They won't run 805+807s in service, they're being cleared for rescue purposes though, that would be 312m long, around 48m longer than a 390/1.Think the plans are to run two units together. One for North Wales and the other for Blackpool splitting at Crewe.
Two 7 cars units would be too long for platforms However a 7 and 5 car could just about fit platforms
There's a path leaving Blackpool at 05:35, which already exists, but, from Crewe, this conflicts with the NWC service during later hours. It's entirely possible that what @92002 suggested could become a reality, however, I don't know if this is actually planned - the Avanti recast presentation has no mention of this happening.Prior to the pandemic there were a few Blackpool North to London Euston via Trent Valley Pendolino services, I was under the impression that these would be replaced by 807s with the same calling pattern, unless the plan has changed with the WCML recast and the paths for such a service are no longer available.
If the intention is to run them to Blackpool/Preston, why is the MU profile only considering as far as Weaver? Seems like a lack of joined up thinking if that was the intent?
There's not a whole lot of sections you can upgrade there. From South of Warrington to North of Wigan there aren't any EPS differentials. You'd only be able to knock a few seconds if anything on journey times, and given how few 805/7s are likely to go that way it's not going to be worth the money.If the intention is to run them to Blackpool/Preston, why is the MU profile only considering as far as Weaver? Seems like a lack of joined up thinking if that was the intent?
Given that the current Blackpoool services (and Preston terminaters) should really all be going to [Carlisle and] Glasgow, does that mean that most of the Brum-Preston-Glasgow trains have been written out of the timetable?805s/807s running on the Euston-Birmingham semi-fast (xx:21 from Birmingham and xx:16 from Euston), with some of those also extending to Blackpool. The Blackpool via the Trent Valley service is also looking to be run by 805s/807s. 807s on 1tph to Liverpool, with an additional train per hour being run by a 390. 805s to North Wales.
The Birmingham/Blackpool services will be the most likely to see 390 substitutions. If/when Birminghams go up to 3tph, the semi-fast service should be mostly 80x.
The initial debut for 805s will be London-Birmingham services.