Project Oval: How can the expansion of contactless be properly covered by better maps in the London & SouthEast area?

[fandroid]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ds-coming-to-contactless-payment-cards.231684

Post #532 has a Phase One map, if you're wondering.)

That map is so obviously issued by an organisation that feels no responsibilities for giving useful information to the ultimate customers. Why didn't they base it on a modification of the consultative map in post #1?

It's useless as information for most passengers, as it omits nearly all stations that currently take contactless.

Has TfL reissued it in a customer-friendly form? If not, then they should

 

[Edvid]

I don't think the stations will appear on any TfL maps until the extensions go live, though it wouldn't surprise me if they were already drafting associated changes to their Tube and Rail map.

Chiltern Railways are the first TOC to mention a specific date for their stations - 3 December 2023.

Pay as you go expansion | Chiltern Railways

Chiltern Railways stations included in contactless pay as you go expansionSix Chiltern Railways stations will be included in the expansion of contactless pay as you go (PAYG) technology including:High WycombeBeaconsfieldSeer Green and JordansGerrards CrossDenham Golf ClubDenhamPhase 1 of the...

www.chilternrailways.co.uk

 

[JaJaWa]

I don't think the stations will appear on any TfL maps until the extensions go live, though it wouldn't surprise me if they were already drafting associated changes to their Tube and Rail map.

Chiltern Railways are the first TOC to mention a specific date for their stations - 3 December 2023.

Pay as you go expansion | Chiltern Railways

Chiltern Railways stations included in contactless pay as you go expansionSix Chiltern Railways stations will be included in the expansion of contactless pay as you go (PAYG) technology including:High WycombeBeaconsfieldSeer Green and JordansGerrards CrossDenham Golf ClubDenhamPhase 1 of the...

www.chilternrailways.co.uk

Sounds like that's the date for all of the Phase 1 stations:

Phase 1 of the project is due to go live on the 3 December 2023 and will see the extension of contactless PAYG technology to 53 stations in the London commuter belt.

 

[hwl]

That map is so obviously issued by an organisation that feels no responsibilities for giving useful information to the ultimate customers. Why didn't they base it on a modification of the consultative map in post #1?

It's useless as information for most passengers, as it omits nearly all stations that currently take contactless.

Has TfL reissued it in a customer-friendly form? If not, then they should

Because:
1. the consultative map is out of date with lots more stations added (all in phase 2)
2. It is incompatible to meaningfully shows the station names for all 53 in phase 1 so different format was/is needed.

But they could still have done far far better.
A map for phase 2 will be more challenging and lets hope more effort is put in.

 

[matt_world2004]

I think the london connections map needs to go back to only showing stations on oyster once the roll out of Project Oval is complete

 

[Haywain]

I think the london connections map needs to go back to only showing stations on oyster once the roll out of Project Oval is complete

In which case it won't be much of a "London connections" map as all the Project Oval stations are for contactless payment, not Oyster.

 

[MrJeeves]

A combination of the current map and a revised "London and the South East" map would suffice, I would suppose?

 

[matt_world2004]

In which case it won't be much of a "London connections" map as all the Project Oval stations are for contactless payment, not Oyster.

The original london connections map only showed stations within Greater london and a few stations like Watford,Amersham and Epping outside Greater london . All project oval stations are outside Greater london showing all project oval stations on the london connections map is going to make it confusing and pointless.

 

[mattdickinson]

The original london connections map only showed stations within Greater london and a few stations like Watford,Amersham and Epping outside Greater london . All project oval stations are outside Greater london showing all project oval stations on the london connections map is going to make it confusing and pointless.

The Great Western branches aren't shown on the map even though they now accept contactless.

 

[fandroid]

Whatever happens, it's important to clearly communicate where contactless is currently in operation. If that means issuing map updates fairly frequently, so be it. I don't know how otherwise you can effectively communicate this information. Just churning out lists of stations might inform a lot of people about their routine journeys but is hopeless at informing those people who are already using contactless and want to take new journeys.

There is a bear trap awaiting the latter. There is another thread discussing ticket checks at Stansted Airport where it seems a significant number of people assume contactless will work there and all they need to do re tickets is to tap in a central London. They then get a Penalty Fare Notice. I'm sure that scenario happens elsewhere too.

Good public information is essential in a rapidly changing ticketing environment

 

[SynthD]

The map should definitely be a diagram, but I was interested to make a geographical map. Bletchley, Gatwick and Welwyn Garden City are off the map. I won't be correcting errors, as this was just a silly effort.

 

[etr221]

I don't think the stations will appear on any TfL maps until the extensions go live, though it wouldn't surprise me if they were already drafting associated changes to their Tube and Rail map.

Chiltern Railways are the first TOC to mention a specific date for their stations - 3 December 2023.

Pay as you go expansion | Chiltern Railways

Chiltern Railways stations included in contactless pay as you go expansionSix Chiltern Railways stations will be included in the expansion of contactless pay as you go (PAYG) technology including:High WycombeBeaconsfieldSeer Green and JordansGerrards CrossDenham Golf ClubDenhamPhase 1 of the...

www.chilternrailways.co.uk

In fact - reading their web page - they don't.
They

1. List six of their stations included in the PAYG extension project
2. Gave a date for implementation of phase 1 of the project, covering 53 unspecified stations.

But they don't state that the six stations listed are included in the 53 for phase 1.
While it's a reasonable assumption that they are, and so PAYG can be used at them from the date quoted, they haven't actually said so...

Whatever happens, it's important to clearly communicate where contactless is currently in operation. If that means issuing map updates fairly frequently, so be it. I don't know how otherwise you can effectively communicate this information. Just churning out lists of stations might inform a lot of people about their routine journeys but is hopeless at informing those people who are already using contactless and want to take new journeys.

There is a bear trap awaiting the latter. There is another thread discussing ticket checks at Stansted Airport where it seems a significant number of people assume contactless will work there and all they need to do re tickets is to tap in a central London. They then get a Penalty Fare Notice. I'm sure that scenario happens elsewhere too.

Good public information is essential in a rapidly changing ticketing environment

There is already a bear trap, regarding journeys from Reading via Wokingham - either to SW stations like Feltham, or Southern stations reached via Redhill - where it is stated that contactles is available at both ends of the journey, and a fare is quoted, without there being any reference made to routing options or restrictions. If there is a PAYG fare quoted for (e.g.) Reading to Gatwick, and there is a direct train, the bear will say 'I can use PAYG on that train' - and why should he not? What says that he cannot?

 

[JonathanH]

If there is a PAYG fare quoted for (e.g.) Reading to Gatwick, and there is a direct train, the bear will say 'I can use PAYG on that train' - and why should he not? What says that he cannot?

There already is such a fare, but it is substantially more expensive than buying a paper ticket via Gomshall at peak times, and, while cheaper off peak than the fare via Gomshall, because of single leg pricing, not that much.

A sign at platforms 4 to 6 at Reading could be installed to make it clear. Announcements are made on trains when approaching the edge of the area.

 

[Babybirdrobin]

Sorry if this has been asked already but will this increase in area have travelcards for the month that they’re still available (December) and would these be within the zones, would there be like a zone 10 etc or would it be so that they’re using a different PAYG fare system? Also, does anyone know what’s going to happen with the London’s tube and rail services map, that could be quite interesting to see if/how they fit it all in

 

[JonathanH]

Sorry if this has been asked already but will this increase in area have travelcards for the month that they’re still available (December) and would these be within the zones, would there be like a zone 10 etc or would it be so that they’re using a different PAYG fare system?

The extension of PAYG coverage to non-TfL stations (and indeed TfL stations beyond West Drayton) has no impact on the validity area of Travelcards, nor does it create further concentric zones around London.

A outboundary Travelcard would remain valid for one journey from the relevant outboundary Station to London and unlimited travel inside Zones 1 to 6.

Where PAYG has previously been extended beyond the Oyster area, it certainly isn't advertised that travelling to, for example, Reading, allows unlimited travel to Luton Airport Parkway.

(I recognise that Watford High Street, Cheshunt and Brentwood got extra validity for their travelcards when TfL services were extended, as did Dartford and Swanley when they were brought within the outer Zones, but other extensions have not seen this.)

 

[Babybirdrobin]

The extension of PAYG coverage to non-TfL stations (and indeed TfL stations beyond West Drayton) has no impact on the validity area of Travelcards, nor does it create further concentric zones around London.

A outboundary Travelcard would remain valid for one journey from the relevant outboundary Station to London and unlimited travel inside Zones 1 to 6.

Where PAYG has previously been extended beyond the Oyster area, it certainly isn't advertised that travelling to, for example, Reading, allows unlimited travel to Luton Airport Parkway.

(I recognise that Watford High Street, Cheshunt and Brentwood got extra validity for their travelcards when TfL services were extended, as did Dartford and Swanley when they were brought within the outer Zones, but other extensions have not seen this.)

Ok, thank you!