Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[Adam Williams]

I think it was always in phase two, but there now seems to be something between phase one and the original phase two. I'm afraid I can't be bothered to try and figure out what was originally planned and how it all fits in now!

I can't blame you - it hurts my head to try and think about, at this point!

 

[MrJeeves]

I think this represents the latest state-of-play. Green being what is rolling out on 2 Feb and red being "in 2025".

Do let me know if I've missed any bits.

 

[Haywain]

Do let me know if I've missed any bits.

Luton, Leagrave and Harlington appear to be included in the additional 2025 stations. That's just the bit that's obvious to me, I don't know other areas so well.

 

[mattdickinson]

I think this represents the latest state-of-play. Green being what is rolling out on 2 Feb and red being "in 2025".

Do let me know if I've missed any bits.

Denham to High Wycombe is already live.

 

[MrJeeves]

Luton, Leagrave and Harlington appear to be included in the additional 2025 stations. That's just the bit that's obvious to me, I don't know other areas so well.

Denham to High Wycombe is already live.

Thanks both. Updated to match.

 

[greenline712]

An announcement at Egham this AM states go-live on 2 February.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

The press release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...tless-ticketing-rolls-out-at-47-more-stations doesn't to my mind make clear that this doesn't mean one can use an oyster card at these new stations:

... passengers across the South East will be able to use tap-in and tap-out ticketing at 47 more stations for the first time, guaranteeing they get the best value ticket available on the day.

Oyster is tap-in tap-out.

Pleased that I will have the choice of travelling from Bletchley to London using my contactless card or to buy a traditional tickets with railcard discount from Milton Keynes Central.

But that still leaves the other stations in MK - Wolverton, Fenny Stratford, Bow Brickhill and Woburn Sands - not being tap-in tap-out.

 

[JonathanH]

The press release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...tless-ticketing-rolls-out-at-47-more-stations doesn't to my mind make clear that this doesn't mean one can use an oyster card at these new stations:

So long as it doesn't mention Oyster, hopefully people will understand that Oyster can't be used in the wider area.

Oyster and Contactless are already not the only tap-in and tap-off systems in use, with other options like SWR tap2go and GTR keygo already available on their individual networks.

 

[Richardr]

The press release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...tless-ticketing-rolls-out-at-47-more-stations doesn't to my mind make clear that this doesn't mean one can use an oyster card at these new stations:

... passengers across the South East will be able to use tap-in and tap-out ticketing at 47 more stations for the first time, guaranteeing they get the best value ticket available on the day.

That's not true for a minute is it?

As mentioned several times, Thameslink still have Super Off-Peak Day Return on the weekend which isn't available via this roll out. This contactless also doesn't include railcard discounts.

 

[JonathanH]

That's not true for a minute is it?

As mentioned several times, Thameslink still have Super Off-Peak Day Return on the weekend which isn't available via this roll out.

If the 'paper' fares are aligned with the Project Oval structure and super off-peak day returns withdrawn, as has happened at the first 52 stations, then the claim about 'best value' will mainly be true for point to point travel.

 

[CyrusWuff]

That's not true for a minute is it?

As mentioned several times, Thameslink still have Super Off-Peak Day Return on the weekend which isn't available via this roll out. This contactless also doesn't include railcard discounts.

No GTR stations are included in Phase 1b, so there are no changes to traditional tickets yet as the Contactless extensions out to Luton Airport Parkway, Gatwick Airport, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North all pre-date Project Oval.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

Does anyone know why Flitwick isn't included along with Luton, Leagrave and Harlington in the additional 2025 stations?

 

[greenline712]

Does anyone know why Flitwick isn't included along with Luton, Leagrave and Harlington in the additional 2025 stations?

Because it is only as far as Luton Airport Parkway!!
All joking apart ... the boundary has to be somewhere, and I suspect the thought of trying to sort out fares further north requires more work.
In the same way that Bletchley is the boundary out of Euston, so that MKC is omitted .... that means Avanti WC doesn't get involved; omitting Luton leaves EMR out.
In much the same way, Huntington was the furthest north for the Network Card ... that way InterCity East Coast didn't have the complication of the NC fares.

It's all sort of logical, really ....

 

[Edvid]

omitting Luton leaves EMR out.

On the contrary, Luton Airport Parkway has been served by EMR and its intercity predecessors since May 2000 (it opened just six months prior). Its status as the airport's mainline stop was probably why contactless PAYG was extended to it in 2019.

In much the same way, Huntington was the furthest north for the Network Card ... that way InterCity East Coast didn't have the complication of the NC fares.

Flitwick is actually something of an oddity. All other Phase 2A extremities (Baldock aside, possibly) are either located at the end of a TOC route or where routes diverge.

 

[Haywain]

Because it is only as far as Luton Airport Parkway!!

The question about Flitwick stems from Luton, Leagrave and Harrington being listed as joining the scheme later this year.

 

[londonbridge]

If they added Flitwick there would then be complaints about not including Bedford. The boundary has to be drawn somewhere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they added Flitwick there would then be complaints about not including Bedford. The boundary has to be drawn somewhere.

Logic would be the outer end of Thameslink i.e. Bedford. I accept Milton Keynes Central possibly hasn't been done because of the complex fare structure?

I wonder if it'll cause more people to use Bletchley?

 

[A S Leib]

Will Winslow have PAYG once it's open, even if not to / via Bicester?

 

[greatkingrat]

Have they said how the maximum fare will work? Some people may get a shock if they are charged the fare to Shoeburyness!

 

[aron2smith]

I think this represents the latest state-of-play. Green being what is rolling out on 2 Feb and red being "in 2025".

Do let me know if I've missed any bits.

Never knew this was planned to reach Cambridge, I hope so! And with it being extended to Bedford too and the Marston Vale Line, could the whole East West Railway (including to Oxford) eventually come under contactless? If so, they may as well cover up to Braintree, Colchester and maybe Ipswich to cover more regional journeys. The same with it being a good idea to cover the whole Thameslink network under this payment system, Peterborough and Horsham still fall out. Also took a long time but this expansion should be really good when it finally happens. Can't wait for it to cover Harlow to Stansted!

 

[Edvid]

Will Winslow have PAYG once it's open, even if not to / via Bicester?

Probably not. It likely also depends on EWR services running to/from Aylesbury beforehand, whenever that is (unless the current scope of Phase 2 expands to Bicester).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Will Winslow have PAYG once it's open, even if not to / via Bicester?

No. The limits of PAYG (post Phase 2a) are Bletchley on the WCML, Princes Risborough on Chiltern and Reading on Great Western.

 

[Recessio]

Have they said how the maximum fare will work? Some people may get a shock if they are charged the fare to Shoeburyness!

I was wondering this actually. I assume it will be based on the routes at the tap-in station? Eg if you tap in at Fenchurch Street it wouldn't end up charging you a fare to Woking?

 

[Hadders]

As mentioned several times, Thameslink still have Super Off-Peak Day Return on the weekend which isn't available via this roll out. This contactless also doesn't include railcard discounts.

I fear the weekend super off peak tickets will get removed which will mean a 50% increase in fares to travel from Stevenage to London and back at the weekend.

To be fair super-off peak tickets are still available from Welwyn Garden City which has had contactless for some time, but not as part of Project Oval.

 

[Haywain]

I fear the weekend super off peak tickets will get removed which will mean a 50% increase in fares to travel from Stevenage to London and back at the weekend.

I fear this happening on the Bedford line too.

 

[JonathanH]

I fear the weekend super off peak tickets will get removed which will mean a 50% increase in fares to travel from Stevenage to London and back at the weekend.

I fear this happening on the Bedford line too.

...and from stations south of the river too. The other thing is blanket 0930 restriction and afternoon peak restrictions on off-peak day singles.

 

[Haywain]

...and from stations south of the river too. The other thing is blanket 0930 restriction and afternoon peak restrictions on off-peak day singles.

Yes. The only plus point is the pre-0630 off-peak fares (especially for railcard users with KeyGo).

 

[Hadders]

I don't want to take this thread off-topic with a discussion about fares, but I've been warning about massive fares increases for leisure travel as a result of Project Oval for years.

Here's are some links to a couple of posts I wrote a few years ago demonstrating the issue.

Potters Bar and Brookmans Park Fare Observations

Sorry if this should probably go in an existing thread, but I didn't want to hijack any discussions. I looked into how this affects the market for someone who travels from this area to London during weekday off-peak, returns on a different day and is happy to avoid zone 1 if the journey is...

www.railforums.co.uk

March 2019 Oyster Extensions Confirmed

* Losers being those who currently get an off-peak day return that want to travel in the evening peak and those who travel at weekends. Oh, and those who want to break their journey. Although, if these people can continue to use paper tickets to make their journey...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Jimini]

I fear the weekend super off peak tickets will get removed which will mean a 50% increase in fares to travel from Stevenage to London and back at the weekend.

To be fair super-off peak tickets are still available from Welwyn Garden City which has had contactless for some time, but not as part of Project Oval.

That happened on the WCML a few years ago and still irks me!

 

[rocket1615]

Do we know if KeyGo will (eventually) be enabled as part of this rollout for the Thameslink served stations? Struggling to find any information.