Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[CyrusWuff]

There still does not seem to be any 1600-1900 restrictions on off peak fares on the GWML as far as Reading (including the Thames Valley branches) like there is in the rest of the contactless area? An off peak ticket from Hemel Hempstead to Slough is £27.80. It is not valid for trains arriving in London before 10am Mondays to Fridays but you can return on any train. Or if you use contactless you will only be charged the peak fare if you arrive in London before 10am.

The extension of Contactless to Reading predates Oval, hence the different time restrictions.

 

[JonathanH]

The extension of Contactless to Reading predates Oval, hence the different time restrictions.

It does, but not for journeys to stations north of Watford Junction on the WCML, for which the 'paper' fares were 'ovalised' in December 2023. Notably the 'paper' fares from the GWML stations to Bushey and Watford Junction haven't been 'ovalised'.

 

[MikeWh]

Notably the 'paper' fares from the GWML stations to Bushey and Watford Junction haven't been 'ovalised'.

Possibly because Bushey (8) and Watford Junction (10) are not part of Oval either.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

There doesn't appear to be any sign of DfT's 'best price guarantee' on Contactless PAYG here. However, as paper tickets allow break of journey, it is near impossible for the restrictions to apply in exactly the same way.

I don't believe the 'best price guarantee' guarantees as good a price as with a paper ticket: Indeed there are some situations for which it is explicitly stated that you'll get a better price with a paper ticket (for example, in many cases if travelling with a railcard). As I understand it, the best price guarantee simply means that each day, you'll be charged whatever is the cheapest contactless fare available for the particular combination of journeys you made using contactless during that day.

 

[MrJeeves]

I don't believe the 'best price guarantee' guarantees as good a price as with a paper ticket: Indeed there are some situations for which it is explicitly stated that you'll get a better price with a paper ticket (for example, in many cases if travelling with a railcard). As I understand it, the best price guarantee simply means that each day, you'll be charged whatever is the cheapest contactless fare available for the particular combination of journeys you made using contactless during that day.

The "best price guarantee" is about as meaningless as Trainline's, really.

 

[MikeWh]

The "best price guarantee" is about as meaningless as Trainline's, really.

It's particularly meaningless in regards to the Sevenoaks stations: https://oysterfares.com/southeastern-cap-confusion/

Most concerning is that the caps from all the new stations (inc Dunton Green, Bat & Ball, Otford, Shoreham and Eynsford) are more expensive than the relevant one day travelcards. This means that you may be overcharged compared to a paper ticket for a day out in London.

 

[JonathanH]

It's particularly meaningless in regards to the Sevenoaks stations: https://oysterfares.com/southeastern-cap-confusion/

Nothing new though, since the Redhill off-peak cap is massively more than the paper off-peak day travelcard (although that does come with extra validity). At some point a decision will no doubt be made on alignment.

 

[MikeWh]

Nothing new though, since the Redhill off-peak cap is massively more than the paper off-peak day travelcard (although that does come with extra validity). At some point a decision will no doubt be made on alignment.

The Redhill caps are a product of the way Oyster was rolled out. They cannot be less than the caps assigned to a lower zone which means that Shenfield (12) rules the minimum that can be set for Merstham-Horley (13) and Gatwick Airport (14). Potters Bar and Radlett prove that it is possible to set different adult caps for contactless and Oyster, and I fully expect that the same will apply to Gatwick at some point in the future. Incidentally I've just noticed that the c2c caps just east of the Grays area are similarly suffering from the long standing anomaly that Grays area caps are those set by WMR for Watford Junction. I will be doing further analysis on this when time permits.

 

[Kite159]

Nothing new though, since the Redhill off-peak cap is massively more than the paper off-peak day travelcard (although that does come with extra validity). At some point a decision will no doubt be made on alignment.

And no doubt if it ever does it will be the travelcard being increased to be the same or more than the cap, rather than the cap getting reduced.

 

[MikeWh]

And no doubt if it ever does it will be the travelcard being increased to be the same or more than the cap, rather than the cap getting reduced.

Not necessarily. The reason for the difference is technical rather than a concious decision.

 

[londonbridge]

It's particularly meaningless in regards to the Sevenoaks stations: https://oysterfares.com/southeastern-cap-confusion/

That’s irritating. I’ve got a gig at St Edith’s Folk club in March, for which the nearest station is Otford. Was looking forward to simply tapping in and out with contactless rather than having to use a paper ticket but it seems I’d end up paying more than necessary. My travel that day would involve:

Bus to work
Bus home
Bus to East Croydon (at which point I’d hit the bus cap)
Train East Croydon-London Bridge-Otford, then return by same route after the gig.
Bus East Croydon-home.

If I just use contactless for the above what am I likely to get charged? I do know that I can’t just get an out boundary travelcard and use it the “wrong way round”.

Edit: alternatively I could get bus to Bromley South and train from there to Otford, which the single fare finder shows as £9:20 out (as I’d be travelling in the peak) and £4:70 back.

 

[Eliottjames]

Has there been any news on when railcard support will be added to contactless cards?

 

[MrJeeves]

Has there been any news on when railcard support will be added to contactless cards?

Last I heard was 2028, but that it could be brought forward to next year instead.

 

[Watershed]

Has there been any news on when railcard support will be added to contactless cards?

No; at the moment there hasn't even been any news on the tender for the contract to add contactless functionality to the PAYG system. I wouldn't expect it to be available this year or even next year.

Railcard holders will often still find it cheaper to buy conventional single/return paper/eTicket/smartcard tickets.

 

[Eliottjames]

Thanks both. Was hoping I’d be able to ditch my Oyster soon!

 

[Goldfish62]

TfL states that its Project Proteus will move Oyster to an account-based system as per contactless bank cards. Does that mean that there would then be potential for Oyster to work in the current contractless-only areas?

 

[kacper]

TfL states that its Project Proteus will move Oyster to an account-based system as per contactless bank cards. Does that mean that there would then be potential for Oyster to work in the current contractless-only areas?

What is Project Proteus please?

 

[JonathanH]

What is Project Proteus please?

Discussed here as being "the new contract for supplying and managing all ticket sales, gateline and inspection hardware" which is "supposed to take effect from 2026". https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ures-in-tfl-revenue-collection-tender.239540/

 

[hwl]

TfL states that its Project Proteus will move Oyster to an account-based system as per contactless bank cards. Does that mean that there would then be potential for Oyster to work in the current contractless-only areas?

Yes in the long term, but a long transition period.

As TfL have discovered with Oval alternatives to Cubic aren't as good for hardware (when trying to integrate existing non-Cubic equipment previously installed by TOCs, hence lots of replacement and delays)

 

[Harryeurostar]

Since there isn't actually any photos of the new readers on this, I thought I'd drop these (admittedly late) photos of the readers at Otford. It did feel extremely odd to see an 'oyster' reader, such a London thing, in Otford! Curiosity then got the better of me and I tapped my Keygo card to see what would happen lol

 

[duffield]

Since there isn't actually any photos of the new readers on this, I thought I'd drop these (admittedly late) photos of the readers at Otford. It did feel extremely odd to see an 'oyster' reader, such a London thing, in Otford! Curiosity then got the better of me and I tapped my Keygo card to see what would happen lol

So, err, what *did* happen? The screen messages in the photos all just say "validate card for...". Is that it, or did something else happen when you tapped? I usually get something like "invalid ITSO card" when I use the wrong card.

 

[Harryeurostar]

Well, it's worth noting that I didn't have a ticket loaded into the card *just keygo set up*, but I got a 'seek assistance 57' error message which means -station not covered by prepaid ticket' when looking online. A couple months back the readers where uncovered for testing and I tapped with a smartcard + ticket loaded on and it was accepted though (SE key smartcard)

There's the error from the video i took, the frame without all my personal information as i *stupidly* tapped the back of my card forward, just never transferred it to my phone from the sd card and my PC is dead

 

[duffield]

Well, it's worth noting that I didn't have a ticket loaded into the card *just keygo set up*, but I got a 'seek assistance 57' error message which means -station not covered by prepaid ticket' when looking online. A couple months back the readers where uncovered for testing and I tapped with a smartcard + ticket loaded on and it was accepted though (SE key smartcard)

There's the error from the video i took, the frame without all my personal information as i *stupidly* tapped the back of my card forward, just never transferred it to my phone from the sd card and my PC is dead

Thanks, I was just curious!

 

[JaJaWa]

Since there isn't actually any photos of the new readers on this, I thought I'd drop these (admittedly late) photos of the readers at Otford. It did feel extremely odd to see an 'oyster' reader, such a London thing, in Otford! Curiosity then got the better of me and I tapped my Keygo card to see what would happen lol

They went with the Century Gothic font on the new readers across all the TOCs, presumably as they didn’t want to use TfL’s Johnston font outside of the TfL area. Would have thought this would be the perfect time to have used Rail Alphabet 2…