Proposal to split cross-Manchester services and re-route trains heading west to run from Victoria

[Kite159]

The Northern franchise is expected to hit the buffers tomorrow and there was a meeting on the 23 January at Network Rail to discuss which services through Manchester could be cut as part of "temporary palliative measures". I don't suppose anyone knows anything?

The EMR service would be an "easy" win to cut back to the bays at Piccadilly.
1 - gets rid of a service with end door stock via Castlefield
2 - gets rid of a service which doesn't have the best time keeping in either direction, might even improve the time keeping of the Warrington Central stopper which has to wait for the EMR before departing.

 

[Glenn1969]

Short term changes to the Airedale line have been advertised on Dalesbus.org with morning services from Carlisle and Morecambe and the 1218, 1418 and 1518 from Leeds terminating/starting from Skipton from 17 February. Could that be a sign that Northern is willing to cut services elsewhere too maybe including Manchester?

 

[JonathanH]

Short term changes to the Airedale line have been advertised on Dalesbus.org with morning services from Carlisle and Morecambe and the 1218, 1418 and 1518 from Leeds terminating/starting from Skipton from 17 February. Could that be a sign that Northern is willing to cut services elsewhere too maybe including Manchester?

Isn't that just to do with construction work at Leeds station rather than a decision to cut services for the sake of reliability?

 

[Greybeard33]

The EMR service would be an "easy" win to cut back to the bays at Piccadilly.
1 - gets rid of a service with end door stock via Castlefield
2 - gets rid of a service which doesn't have the best time keeping in either direction, might even improve the time keeping of the Warrington Central stopper which has to wait for the EMR before departing.

I think it is highly unlikely that services on the CLC line will be reduced from 4tph to 3tph. There is already peak overcrowding on the line and the stoppers cannot be strengthened to compensate because of short platforms.

More likely that services from the Chat Moss and/or Bolton lines will be diverted to/through Victoria.

 

[JonathanH]

I think it is highly unlikely that services on the CLC line will be reduced from 4tph to 3tph. There is already peak overcrowding on the line and the stoppers cannot be strengthened to compensate because of short platforms.

More likely that services from the Chat Moss and/or Bolton lines will be diverted to/through Victoria.

I don't think that posters have been suggesting an outright reduction in the service on the CLC line from 4tph to 3tph, rather making the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport run half-hourly to simplify the service. Is a further alternative to just run both the stopper and the semi-fast on the CLC to terminate at Oxford Road, using platforms 3 and 5 for reversals (at the same time)? That way, Northern would only need to find one additional unit relative to the current service.

 

[Kite159]

I don't think that posters have been suggesting an outright reduction in the service on the CLC line from 4tph to 3tph, rather making the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport run half-hourly to simplify the service. Is a further alternative to just run both the stopper and the semi-fast on the CLC to terminate at Oxford Road, using platforms 3 and 5 for reversals (at the same time)? That way, Northern would only need to find one additional unit relative to the current service.

It removes end door stock from P13/14 at Piccadilly, and in my experience those services have a good turnover of passengers at Piccadilly.

Also coming from Norwich, delays can easily be picked up, which then delays the following Oxford Road - Liverpool stopper from departing Oxford Road [or it ends up getting looped at Glazebrook], which then causes the service from the airport to also get delayed.

 

[Greybeard33]

I don't think that posters have been suggesting an outright reduction in the service on the CLC line from 4tph to 3tph, rather making the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport run half-hourly to simplify the service. Is a further alternative to just run both the stopper and the semi-fast on the CLC to terminate at Oxford Road, using platforms 3 and 5 for reversals (at the same time)? That way, Northern would only need to find one additional unit relative to the current service.

Network Rail modelling has indicated that 2tph need to be removed from the Castlefield corridor to get a reliable timetable. Changing the destinations, or terminating more services at Oxford Road, does not cut it - that is just rearranging the deckchairs.

Trains that reverse in Platforms 5 or 3 at Oxford Road have to run "wrong road" back to the crossover in order to head back west, blocking other services in both directions during this departure move across the station throat. Arguably this restricts capacity more than continuing east through Piccadilly.

 

[Kite159]

Maybe divert the Blackpool - Hazel Grove services into Victoria, maybe split the Liverpool - Crewe stoppers into Victoria with a separate Piccadilly - Crewe service.

If Hazel Grove needs 3tph, a single unit will be suitable to run shuttles from Piccadilly to hazel grove?

Whatever happens there will be uproar from those passengers who lose connections at Piccadilly etc, maybe even cut back one of the TPE services from the airport to terminate at Piccadilly (via Guide Bridge)

 

[Kieran1990]

Where is the capacity coming from at Victoria? There isn’t an eastern turn back facility an the great extension lead isn’t finished.
if it was we could see electrics from Chat moss/ Bolton sent to Stayle bays but this Ashton route currently handles 6tph

 

[Greybeard33]

Where is the capacity coming from at Victoria? There isn’t an eastern turn back facility an the great extension lead isn’t finished.
if it was we could see electrics from Chat moss/ Bolton sent to Stayle bays but this Ashton route currently handles 6tph

There are currently 2tph from the east that terminate in the Victoria bays - the Stalybridge shuttle and 1tph from Leeds via Bradford. With some rejigging of the timetable, conceivably one or both of these could be extended through Victoria and link with a diesel service from the west.

There are three diesel services from the Bolton and Chat Moss lines that currently run through the Castlefield corridor and so could be potentially diverted through Victoria; Northern's from Southport to Alderley Edge and Barrow/Windermere to Manchester Airport, plus TfW's from Chester/N Wales to the Airport.

 

[Kite159]

There are currently 2tph from the east that terminate in the Victoria bays - the Stalybridge shuttle and 1tph from Leeds via Bradford. With some rejigging of the timetable, conceivably one or both of these could be extended through Victoria and link with a diesel service from the west.

There are three diesel services from the Bolton and Chat Moss lines that currently run through the Castlefield corridor and so could be potentially diverted through Victoria; Northern's from Southport to Alderley Edge and Barrow/Windermere to Manchester Airport, plus TfW's from Chester/N Wales to the Airport.

*imagines the uproar from the Southport line users group at losing direct services to Piccadilly again*

But in an ideal world, they would be an easy win to transfer to Victoria and extend to Stalybridge, with an EMU service for Piccadilly to Alderley Edge

 

[Glenn1969]

The Northern TSR had a Calder Valley service going via Chat Moss to Liverpool

I also wonder whether there is scope for removing the TfW service from Castlefield and sending it to Stalybridge- have often thought Ashton is poorly served by long distance services

 

[Bantamzen]

*imagines the uproar from the Southport line users group at losing direct services to Piccadilly again*

But in an ideal world, they would be an easy win to transfer to Victoria and extend to Stalybridge, with an EMU service for Piccadilly to Alderley Edge

Tell them firstly that their service is being cut back to Bolton, for them to change there to Manchester. Then an extension to Victoria would be an improvement on that.....

Seriously though, what is it about that particular group / town that seems to have so much sway? I've often wondered.