Prosecution Letter - False Accusations

[ANorthernGuard]

Could you tell me when roughly you think you have spoken to me?

Because I can tell you 100% sure I've been spoken to once before and the rail conductor performed the lighter trick and said I'd be fine to go on with that condition.



Interesting this, and thanks for this post. Brings up a whole new case for the rail conductor's options when deeming my card to be unreadable.



Well of course they are options, I took out my railcard thinking the date was showing!

Why would I try and show a railcard and cause an argument if I knew the date was unreadable.

I've stated before that this was the first time I had pulled out my railcard in 3 weeks and therefore I hadn't noticed the railcard was unreadable. (please note it was only the number '2' of the year '12' that had rubbed off completely at this time).

Never had I attempted to board the train to use an invalid railcard, it would foolish for me to try and attempt to just for a £1.10 saving.

If the OP can prove the railcard wasn't out of date, it would mean no intent to defraud at least.

I don't think there was any intent, though as he did say it would be stupid for £1.10. But his own lazyness has got him into this mess (and dodgy ticket stock from National Rail). If he had listened to the advice given to him in the first place none of this would have happened.

 

[leithg1987]

must be a couple of months but to be fair I couldn't remember the exact date etc. as I do a hell of alot of routes and speak to a hell of alot of people.



The swipe on Avantix is not very reliable and not many actually work. Of course it is always a 1st course of action if the date cannot be read but usually if the "lighter trick" has been applied not only is the Strip unreadable but as has already been said usually only works the once.



You previously stated that "Because I can tell you 100% sure I've been spoken to once before " so why didn't you get it sorted after you were told (and I still stand by what I have said that you have been spoken to by more than just the one guard).



So you are arguing that the "2" was unreadable from the railcard, let me ask you this, what do you think is the way most frauds regarding tickets/railcards take place (seasons etc on tickets) simple. the date and usually the last number.

You have already admitted that you had been warned about your Railcard being ineligible by one guard (I still contend this) and you then complain that it was confiscated? surely the sensible course of action would be that you either

a, got it replaced and explaining to the member of staff at the ticket office about the date

or if for some reason you didn't have time

b, explain to the guard before boarding or at the very least after boarding attempt to find him/her as sson as possible and explain the condition of the railcard and let them decide.

To say it looks very dubious is the understatement of the year

I think you're first sentence here proves, that you actually haven't spoken to me, secondly I have rode the Adlington, Cheshire service on only three to four occasions as I had recently started a new position in the area and only once (the time in question) is when I've been spoken to about my railcard.

On the occasion where the Deansgate guard performed the lighter trick, I was told this would be sufficient to get me through to the expiry date - 21 JUN. To my surprise, this had started to wear off fairly quickly and within a month my original railcard was confiscated during this incident. I live and work by two rarely manned stations, therefore I found it difficult to get the card replaced during this time period.

Nevertheless, the card was valid when I last used it and therefore I wasn't anticipating the date rubbing off before 21 Jun 12.

I have a receipt and the purchase of a railcard which will further proof the original validation of the railcard in question.

 

[ole man]

Would the OP and ANorthernGuard discussing this case on here, make any difference to the outcome?.
After all it has now come clear that this as happened before and does the OP have a case by saying Northern rail conductor's have been letting it go?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Would the OP and ANorthernGuard discussing this case on here, make any difference to the outcome?.
After all it has now come clear that this as happened before and does the OP have a case by saying Northern rail conductor's have been letting it go?

No as I am anonymous and the case will be dealt with by their own statements, I will not mention this to my employers (obviously). All I can really say now is this.

No one would risk their job lying over a invalid railcard, its pointless that is one of the main reasons I am dubious (plus the other reasons mentioned) so it will be very interesting to find out what the outcome will be.

 

[ole man]

You might remain silent, but the OP might show this discussion, would it then make any difference

 

[ANorthernGuard]

You might remain silent, but the OP might show this discussion, would it then make any difference

they can show it but the joys of being anonymous is that they cannot prove anything. if we wasn't anonymous you would never see us on forums such as this.

 

[scrapy]

Unlikely to be accepted as evidence by the court.

i) There is no proof who has written the statements, There is no proof that a Northern Guard is either a guard or works for Northern.
ii) None of the statements on here are under oath.

I was involved in a prosecution for another TOC and the defendant (who was representing himself) brought pages of printouts from rail forums (including this one) thinking they would get him off. The court looked at them and said they were not valid as evidence. The defendant had based his whole defence around these so now didn't have a leg to stand on. He was found guilty and recieved a harsher punishment than he would otherwise.

Whilst people may find it helpful to ask for advice on this forum, the advice should in no way be presented to the court as evidence as they are likely to take a dim view of this.

 

[snail]

Originally Posted by snail
Am I right in thinking that they are not options once you have boarded a train and tried to use an invalid railcard?

Well of course they are options, I took out my railcard thinking the date was showing!

They are to you. I was really putting the question to those who know the definitive answer.

Presenting a ticket with invalid railcard = no ticket and can be interpreted as an attempt to defraud the railway. By implication, could presenting an invalid railcard and asking for a discounted ticket be seen the same way? Ignorance is no defence and all that.