He was in frame for the whole encounter, and there are no cuts in the video.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Public Station Pianos.
- Thread starter SECR263
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Anyone who has read Animal Farm knows exactly what to expect from communists!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
One other issue is "breach of the peace", which could be invoked if someone was filming someone else and that was clearly causing antagonism or being done to cause that.
No legal right, but personally I think it's rude to continue filming someone if they've asked you not to. Just because you legally can do something doesn't mean you morally should. Thus I think neither side comes out well from this encounter. Now it might be that being rude is justifiable in some cases e.g. genuine investigative journalists filming someone who's been up to no good (NOT "auditors", proper journalists), but he wasn't that.
No legal right, but personally I think it's rude to continue filming someone if they've asked you not to. Just because you legally can do something doesn't mean you morally should. Thus I think neither side comes out well from this encounter. Now it might be that being rude is justifiable in some cases e.g. genuine investigative journalists filming someone who's been up to no good (NOT "auditors", proper journalists), but he wasn't that.
I think there's a difference between shoving a camera in someone's face during an argument, as is often seen on social media, and filming yourself which happens to capture others in the background or foreground.
The people who allegedly didn't want to be filmed should have simply walked out of shot. It's not like he was going to drag the piano down the concourse to keep them in frame.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Agreed, if the filming is incidental then just moving out of the way is appropriate. That's how the professionals do it too, with warning signs about exactly where the filming will happen so it can be avoided.
ExRes
Established Member
Just out of interest, has anyone noticed the number of Chinese and other Asian races that constantly walk around this country filming anyone and anything that can't get out of their way? Should I complain to the Police every time one of them includes me in their film without my consent? I was in the Oxford Street John Lewis cafe a couple of weeks back and the Chinese there didn't seem to hold back from filming without consent
100% agreed (I’m glad you see it the same way).
We (supposedly) live in a mature, liberal democracy, where we are free to disagree with each other, free to disagree with government policy, free to film each other in public places etc. without intervention from the state.
Sadly the police officer in the video in question apparently either had a different (incorrect) view of what liberal democracy is, or was utterly ignorant regarding the powers her job confers on her. Either position is absolutely shocking, as someone who is supposed to be acting as an agent of the state, and frankly worthy of a complaint.
Anyone who has ended up in a monetised YouTube video can put in a claim and have it removed that way (or have their faces removed). YouTube has its own terms of service to deal with this sort of thing*.
If someone is effectively filming commercially, they should really have release forms to cover themselves. I don't see it as being for the police to deal with.
Likewise, the station can impose its own rules.
* Another trick now used a lot with frauditors and the like is to play music, so YouTube will detect this and refuse monetisation and even potentially block the video.
If someone is effectively filming commercially, they should really have release forms to cover themselves. I don't see it as being for the police to deal with.
Likewise, the station can impose its own rules.
* Another trick now used a lot with frauditors and the like is to play music, so YouTube will detect this and refuse monetisation and even potentially block the video.
Y Ddraig Coch
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2013
- Messages
- 1,298
There is no law against filming anyone or anything as long as it is in a public place and even in many private places it is allowed.
Last edited:
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You don't need release forms if people are caught on camera incidentally. You just put notices up advising of it.
Turtle
Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2013
- Messages
- 293
No, can't say I have, other than people of all varieties taking photos, videoing etc, usually in touristic areas.
Notices must be VERY clear and at all entrances or places where someone might be, and even then someone can ask to be removed - as has happened. They'll either be ghosted out, or that clip will be edited/cut.
It is not practical to get everyone at a station for a documentary series to sign a release (FWIW most of the time I now just agree on camera, so there's no actual paperwork), but everyone actively participating on camera will have done.
And YouTube has terms, which mean what the law says is irrelevant*. YouTube requires content creators to agree to their terms, just as people must agree to the railway terms when travelling.
* In the case of a TV production company, it isn't so much the law but their own guidelines. TikTokers and the like often don't have any guidelines, and cause problems for everyone else because eventually their actions can end up with problems for everyone else.
If that is the case then fair enough, however as we don't know the full extent of what happened before and after the video then I refuse to believe we know all the facts here.
First of all this was a love stream, not an edited video.
The steam was already recording when the Chinese group approach him, and they leave before then end of the stream, so the entire interaction is in the video.
Last edited:
There are many legitimate reasons why people may be in public and not wish to appear in recorded or live videos. Professional organisations are aware of this and take measures to ensure those people won't appear in their content - adequate signage and personnel to manage it are just the starting points of those measures.
So you are speculating, which shows that it is not obvious that there is more to video than we have seen.
We're ignoring the Twitter video linked in post 86 then that clearly shows interaction before the YouTube video then? Okay...
I’ve watched that video too, and while it is rather odd, it doesn’t make it look like the whole situation was staged. Just because they were friendly and jovial at the beginning, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t argue with him later.
357
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 1,371
So the Chinese group were filming and had waited 40 minutes for the piano?
If they had followed the correct procedure for those filming a commercial production then StP would have ensured they had access to the piano and none of this would have happened
If they had followed the correct procedure for those filming a commercial production then StP would have ensured they had access to the piano and none of this would have happened
A video from Kavanagh popped up in my YouTube feed last night, in which he advises that he has received several complaints about the previous video and urges people to download it and re-upload to their own channels in the event that it gets taken down. It's all getting a bit bizarre!
Link below:
Link below:
thejuggler
Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2016
- Messages
- 1,186
If he is monetising his performances St Pancras should be charging him for access and a filming licence.
So the Chinese group were filming and had waited 40 minutes for the piano?
If they had followed the correct procedure for those filming a commercial production then StP would have ensured they had access to the piano and none of this would have happened
In addition to that, I’m sure there’s at least 2 pianos at St Pancras. There was in December. They could have just gone to the other one!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's just tourists generally. To be expected.
His channel is "Guerilla Warfare Piano" suggesting that he doesn't seek prior permission.
While the other group of people present themselves terribly, for a pianist the guy has a lot of videos on his channel of him interacting with security. Here's one of him at Kings Cross, he moved the piano and didn't want to move it back when asked to by station staff. Subsequently, he was escorted out by police though his videos incorrectly have him as being "arrested".
They were apparently only recording a small segment for a greeting, St Pancras allows filming but asks that you apply if it is for commercial purposes. It allows them to ensure that the piano is still shared for public use, and security being aware of filming helps them manage situations like this.
The Elton John Piano is a lot more famous. Trying to get photos of the Kings Cross piano is quite difficult as Google Images gets photos of the Elton John piano over the road.
He is an extremely irritating individual, it has to be said.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Sounds like he's heading into the territory of being a self-appointed "auditor". In which case...
I’ve watched a few of his videos now, and while he is quite irritating and likes an argument, many of the station staff, security staff, police don’t exactly come across very well and seem to be the ultimate jobsworths (not all, some are jovial and clearly have no issue with him)
While he should follow the rules, is it really necessary for various security guards and police to spend time enforcing it, when they could be doing far more important things? The worst thing he seems to do is slightly move the piano.
In this video at King’s Cross Station, Brendan has turned the piano the other way around. 3 security guards are then utilised to then try and get him to turn it back around, occasionally getting quite physical with him (closing the piano lid on his hand for example) and then 2 police officers then turn up to try and diffuse the situation. The shoplifters probably saw that as a golden opportunity!
Surely it would be far easier to just let him get on with it, and just turn it around when he is finished. I’d rather security and police weren’t distracted by a bloke playing a piano and slightly moving it.
While he should follow the rules, is it really necessary for various security guards and police to spend time enforcing it, when they could be doing far more important things? The worst thing he seems to do is slightly move the piano.
In this video at King’s Cross Station, Brendan has turned the piano the other way around. 3 security guards are then utilised to then try and get him to turn it back around, occasionally getting quite physical with him (closing the piano lid on his hand for example) and then 2 police officers then turn up to try and diffuse the situation. The shoplifters probably saw that as a golden opportunity!
Surely it would be far easier to just let him get on with it, and just turn it around when he is finished. I’d rather security and police weren’t distracted by a bloke playing a piano and slightly moving it.
Sounds like he's heading into the territory of being a self-appointed "auditor". In which case...
I agree. I get the sense he’s developed a bit of a taste for actively provoking and needlessly prolonging arguments and disagreements, because it generates views and/or perhaps he just enjoys it. Why does he feel the need to insist on turning the piano around, for example?! Ultimately it isn’t for members of the public to go and start rearranging furniture on stations.
Of course this all makes him (and the pianos) a pain in the backside for both staff who are trying to do their jobs, and the police who end up wasting resources being called to pointless arguments.
The view might be taken that it would be easiest to simply remove the pianos altogether, if they’re becoming a source of arguments, and distracting staff from other tasks.
I completely disagree with that. The vast majority of the time, they are used with no issue, and overall make stations a much more positive place. It would be a complete overreaction to remove them, just because some miserable security staff don’t like them.
It seems most of the situations that this Brendan gets himself in are caused by security or police getting overzealous. Brendan may not help himself in some situations, but decent security and police would deal with that in a more positive way rather than exacerbating a situation and generating negative publicity.
An example is the video I posted above. The security guards clearly completely overreact and their behaviour just looks ridiculous.
Last edited: