Purchased next available ticket

[YNWA]

I got the next available ticket as I was rushing to get the train. So I could not the get the on time ticket, and they were both off peak ticket. The inspector took a photo my railcard details and mentioned it’s a £100 fine and I would be sent a message.

Attached below is the message sent, please does anyone know how I can go about this, I am so worried because I still got a ticket and didn’t intend to travel for free thanks.

Travel Fraud Investigation



We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on 24th May 2024 when staff were carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your ticket, the ticket you offered had been purchased after departure contravening the conditions of carriage.



Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.



At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.

 

[Hadders]

We need to know some more details before we can advise properly:

- Which train company are you dealing with?
- Which stations were you travelling from and to?
- Exactly what ticket did you purchase? How much did it cost? Were any railcards applied?
- Did the ticket cover your entire jourey?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Looks like the train company involved might be West Midlands Trains. Ticket(s) purchased after departure?

 

[John R]

Also, at exactly what point of your journey did you buy the ticket.

 

[Snow1964]

Just to be clear, did you buy an anytime ticket (valid for any train) rather than a train specific ticket. Presumably you only purchased after boarding, please advise if got this wrong.

Basically it is an offence to board train and commence journey without a ticket if ticket issuing facilities were available. But if this was the case, need to be charged with this offence, not something like unable to hand over a ticket (even if ticket wasn't valid) because didn't have a ticket.

as @John R says how far into journey did you buy the ticket, big difference between buying it seconds after you lept on, than leaving it for a while until realised ticket inspectors were on the train (in which case will be presumed you only bought it only because about to be challenged)

 

[AlterEgo]

as @John R says how far into journey did you buy the ticket, big difference between buying it seconds after you lept on, than leaving it for a while until realised ticket inspectors were on the train (in which case will be presumed you only bought it only because about to be challenged)

In the eyes of the law there is no difference.

 

[John R]

In the eyes of the law there is no difference.

Indeed, my question was more to ascertain if it was purchased once on the train, but I now see that point was covered in the letter received.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, my question was more to ascertain if it was purchased once on the train, but I now see that point was covered in the letter received.

This letter is one implying there might be (a lot?) more incidents, rather than relating to the specific one which the OP was caught on. Or it may be a fishing expedition.

To the OP, have you done this (or any other ticketing offence) often, or is this a one off? (You may not wish to answer this on here as the TOC will no doubt be reading, they know about this Forum, but it is something to consider in your response).

 

[John R]

This letter is one implying there might be (a lot?) more incidents, rather than relating to the specific one which the OP was caught on. Or it may be a fishing expedition.

To the OP, have you done this (or any other ticketing offence) often, or is this a one off? (You may not wish to answer this on here as the TOC will no doubt be reading, they know about this Forum, but it is something to consider in your response).

So in particular, will they have seen in your ticket history a lot of "short tickets" from one or two stations away from a main station, whereas you were caught travelling with a ticket just purchased further out? Which might suggest to the investigators that you board without a ticket and then buy one just to get through the barriers.

 

[YNWA]

Thanks everyone for the response, I was actually rushing to catch the rain on that day and didn’t get the ticket until I got on the train. I tried to show the ticket officer my previous ticket history, but he mentioned it’s still going to be a fine. It was same off peak ticket. I am thinking of sending prove of my other ticket as evidence that i always buy my ticket.
One of the inspector mentioned I bought the ticket because i saw them coming, they didn’t want to believe I was rushing to get the train as an excuse for not buying my departure ticket time.

I really don’t know how to solve the situation, would sending my previous ticket help? And the fine moved from £100 the inspector mentioned to £1000 on this email.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks everyone for the response, I was actually rushing to catch the rain on that day and didn’t get the ticket until I got on the train. I tried to show the ticket officer my previous ticket history, but he mentioned it’s still going to be a fine. It was same off peak ticket.

Can you post a screenshot of the e-ticket here, with the ticket number obscured? Also confirm what time train you took and which it was nominally for? And when exactly you purchased it?

If it was an off peak ticket it was likely valid as long as you purchased it before you stepped through the door of the train, and this letter isn't about that but rather other irregularities unearthed when they took a look at your account.

 

[ikcdab]

There is a legal obligation to buy your ticket before boarding the train. You didn't do that so you are guilty of the offence.
The only defence is if there were no ticket machines at the station where you got on.
The only way you can solve the issue is to write back. You need to apologise for not purchasing the ticket correctly, convince them that you won't do it again and ask for an out of court settlement.
If that is accepted, then they will ask you to pay the full cost of the ticket plus about £150 admin fee whichb you will have to pay quickly.
If you do that, then the case is closed.
So for now, draft a response and post it here and we will give you feedback.
I assume the letter you were sent has a deadline for you to respond, so you may need to move quickly.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks everyone for the response, I was actually rushing to catch the rain on that day and didn’t get the ticket until I got on the train. I tried to show the ticket officer my previous ticket history, but he mentioned it’s still going to be a fine. It was same off peak ticket. I am thinking of sending prove of my other ticket as evidence that i always buy my ticket.
One of the inspector mentioned I bought the ticket because i saw them coming, they didn’t want to believe I was rushing to get the train as an excuse for not buying my departure ticket time.

I really don’t know how to solve the situation, would sending my previous ticket help? And the fine moved from £100 the inspector mentioned to £1000 on this email.

Please answer the questions @Hadders posted in the first response - these are important and may affect whether or not you have a defence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only way you can solve the issue is to write back. You need to apologise for not purchasing the ticket correctly, convince them that you won't do it again and ask for an out of court settlement.

This letter/email doesn't read like that. It's the one WMT send when they suspect serious foul play, not just one instance of failure to pay (for which WMT seems to favour the use of Penalty Fares). Fraud is generally not mentioned in the usual first letter, so far as I recall, or if it is it's only in passing with the main thing being emphasized being the possibility of a RoRA prosecution.

The OP needs to seriously think about whether their Trainline (or similar) account contains evidence of genuine fraud, e.g. a lot of short faring or Railcard misuse. Though it could just be a fishing expedition and it may well be no such fraud exists.

 

[reb0118]

I could be wrong but I'm getting the feeling that we might be dealing with railcard minimum fare shenanigans here? Of course, other more serious scenarios are not ruled out.

 

[RPI]

I could be wrong but I'm getting the feeling that we might be dealing with railcard minimum fare shenanigans here? Of course, other more serious scenarios are not ruled out.

I was going to suggest the same, I see this a lot where someone travelling at 0630 "accidentally" buys a ticket with their 16-25 Railcard for 10:01 in order to get around the minimum fare. However, should this be the case then the original PF would have been issued incorrectly as this would not be grounds be for a PF. That doesn't, however, automatically get the OP out of previous incidents that are being investigated.

 

[YNWA]

We need to know some more details before we can advise properly:

- Which train company are you dealing with?
- Which stations were you travelling from and to?
- Exactly what ticket did you purchase? How much did it cost? Were any railcards applied?
- Did the ticket cover your entire jourey?

Just before we can proceed with your case, please can you provide the following:

16-17 Railcard dated from August 2022 to April 2024.
16-25 Railcard dated from June 2022 to April 2024.
26-30 Railcard dated from September 2023 to June 2024.
Home Address via photographic evidence.


Hiya I am dealing with west Midland transport, this is the nature of the case now. They checked my records and honestly I am guilty of the 16-17 railcard use in 2022/2023 when I was a student. Though I have my other two railcard to submit but the 16-17 I am guilty of. Would I be having a criminal record as a result of this. The ticket I purchased was with my real railcard but I am afraid my history of 2022/2023 is back hunting me.

I am certain I am not avoiding the £1000 fine. I am seriously learning from this though.

 

[30907]

Thanks.
Their investigation has found that you claimed different railcard discounts over an overlapping period. You don't need to comment, but obviously you were not entitled to both a 16-17 (which has a better discount) and a 26-30 at the same time.

That is why you are being threatened with court proceedings (though you are not likely to be fined as much as £1000, you will not go to prison and they are unlikely to use the Fraud Act 2006). Nevertheless you may be able to negotiate an out-of-court settlement.

This will cover any journeys (on any train company) where you claimed a discount you weren't entitled to, and they will probably ask for the undiscounted Anytime fare on each occasion, plus an admin fee of at least £100.

You should at this stage reply with details of your 16-25 Railcard, and do your own analysis of your ticket purchase history to refer to when they reply. (If there are genuine reasons why you may have used your account to buy tickets for someone with a 17-18 card, you could mention that too.

Depending on what their next letter says, you may be offered the choice between settling or court, or you may need to write an apologetic letter first.