Pushchairs on trains

[pt_mad]

Noting that there was a previous thread about buggies on trains from 2010, which focused on the considerations and inconsideration of some passengers travelling with pushchairs.

I am interested in hearing experiences of TOC staff as to how they deal with and accommodate passengers who are travelling with buggies in today's rail network. And passengers experiences from what they have seen.

Do some trains now have a designated pushchair space? Or a shared space for pushchairs and bicycles? Do some TOCs allow pushchairs to be parked in wheelchair spaces providing the space is not required by a wheelchair user?

Or in shared mobility spaces (i.e. wheelchair/bicycle/pushchairs, who has priority and how is it enforced?

 

[fowler9]

From experience working in housing most parents now treat having a child as being a serious illness. I had a customer today who's radiator in the kitchen wasn't working, I gave them the next available appointment in two weeks and it wasn't good enough because they have a baby, I don't know why they leave the baby in the kitchen but hey ho. No house I have ever lived in has a radiator in the kitchen. My mum managed 40 years ago folding up a buggy to get on a bus or a train, some of these "babies" can swear as well as the parents as well these days.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Do some trains now have a designated pushchair space? Or a shared space for pushchairs and bicycles? Do some TOCs allow pushchairs to be parked in wheelchair spaces providing the space is not required by a wheelchair user?

Or in shared mobility spaces (i.e. wheelchair/bicycle/pushchairs, who has priority and how is it enforced?

I am not staff, but I can tell you there SWR class 455s do have such a shared use space in each driving car.

And what is the official policy with regard to boarding with pushchairs? I.e. a lot of parents I see today tip the pushchair backwards and pivot the pushchair into the train with the front wheels. Is this the proper way or officially should they always fold up and never tip the buggy to board?

I don't know the official policy - if there is one - but the safest way is definitely "forwards in, backwards out" - last month I saw three incidents in one hour where a parent tried to exit a train "forwards out" and in each instance the pushchair tipped forwards alarmingly, in one case getting the front wheels stuck down the gap and requiring another passenger's assistance in recovering the situation. The guard on the latter train later told me it was an everyday occurrence and agreed that "backwards out" never causes any such issues.

 

[causton]

The ex-London Midland 350 PIS announces that passengers with pushchairs should step off the train first, before taking the pushchair off backwards. At quite a few stops. It is novel at first but after hearing it enough times, it starts to grate...

 

[xc170]

I have a 2 year old son, my partner and I have been on several trains with him, not had any real issues.

If he's asleep in the pushchair, then sorry, we're not taking him out and folding it up for anyone, it's us that'll suffer later on in the day when he becomes over tired because he's been woke up. He usually just goes in the disabled bay or any free vestibule or space big enough, out of the way.

Only issues we've ever had was trying to board an EMT 156 at Matlock, late evening, very lightly loaded service, we go to lift the pushchair into one of the doors behind the cab, guard runs up to us and says something like "Instead of trying to ram it on here where it's obviously not going to fit, use the other end of the train, like you're meant to"... Must remember the crystal ball next time.

 

[Clansman]

If he's asleep in the pushchair, then sorry, we're not taking him out and folding it up for anyone, it's us that'll suffer later on in the day when he becomes over tired because he's been woke up. He usually just goes in the disabled bay or any free vestibule or space big enough, out of the way.

If your son was asleep in the disabled bay, would you move for a person in a wheelchair who needs the space?

 

[duncanp]

If he's asleep in the pushchair, then sorry, we're not taking him out and folding it up for anyone, it's us that'll suffer later on in the day when he becomes over tired because he's been woke up. He usually just goes in the disabled bay or any free vestibule or space big enough, out of the way

That is very selfish of you.

So sod the disabled person that might have actually booked the wheelchair space, as long as you are OK it doesn't matter about the inconvenience caused to others

 

[Ianno87]

That is very selfish of you.

So sod the disabled person that might have actually booked the wheelchair space, as long as you are OK it doesn't matter about the inconvenience caused to others

In that event, I would just relocate my son's pram to the vestibule and stand with him there. Never yet had to move for a wheelchair user though...

Trust me, I've had my son wake up and then not be very happy about it. Cue other passive-agressive muttering comments about the noise. Not helpful when you're genuinely trying your best...

 

[AlterEgo]

Trust me, I've had my son wake up and then not be very happy about it.

So what? He’s a baby, isn’t that part of the deal?

 

[Ianno87]

So what? He’s a baby, isn’t that part of the deal?

Well, yes. It's his screaming in close proximity to other passengers that I'm trying to be mindful of.

 

[theageofthetra]

Should be a limit on the size of pushchairs on any public transport. You wouldn't see those ridiculous show off huge prams on any public transport in Japan for example.

 

[al78]

So what? He’s a baby, isn’t that part of the deal?

But surely it is better to allow the baby to sleep peacefully where possible, rather than disturb him/her and risk a scream fest.

 

[AlterEgo]

But surely it is better to allow the baby to sleep peacefully where possible, rather than disturb him/her and risk a scream fest.

It depends entirely on what sort of inconvenience you’re intending to put other people to in order to avoid that risk.

 

[Deafdoggie]

My children are all older now, but I remember those days (not too far away) of struggling on and off with buggies! I'd always put it in the wheelchair space if available, and would obviously move if a wheelchair passenger needed it (although they never did) The wheelchair space is often fresh-air being carted around, and I see no problem with anyone else using it, as long as they let a wheelchair user have it if they need it.

I did once have a passenger moan at me that my youngest was making too much noise, I told him off for her benefit, and he screamed and created for the rest of the journey. I think she regretted saying anything in the end. People who moan about children making a noise clearly forget they were a child once. And if they say they were always silent and well behaved then they are a blatant liar and must never be trusted! Children are children, now if I hear a baby crying or children shouting, I just relax and think "Thank goodness I don't have to deal with them"

 

[stut]

There's an awful lot of frankly pearl-clutching responses to imagined situations here.

Wheelchair spaces are ideal for pushchairs, particularly when there's a companion or tip-up seat beside. It goes without saying that wheelchairs have priority and you move without question should the space be required - booked or not (same goes if it's the only place a bike can go), but, on a great number of lines (particularly those with poorly accessible stations and DOO), these are occupied only a tiny fraction of the time. So it works - you go there with the pushchair, and even have space to rock it back and forth to keep the wean asleep. Win-win.

In addition, if you're taking a baby on a train, there's a strong likelihood it's off-peak. It's not universal, of course, I've taken my then 6-month-old on a peak hour train to London to much tutting (thanks for the support everyone, it was for an important hospital appointment) but even then, the trains are far from crush loaded, I know the platform sides, and can quite easily accommodate in the vestibules or in the space near the toilets. It's not rocket science.

If a train were busier than imagined for whatever reason, and I ended up needing to fold the pushchair, I would, but it would be a last resort. Yes, pushchairs are easy to fold, but they also carry a lot. Once you've removed the rain hood, your umbrellas, the nappy bag, the bottles and snacks, emergency changes of clothing (for both of you - oh yes), extra dummies, muslins, toys, books, blackout shade and all the other gubbins you need to carry with you, you can fold it. But you can understand why you'd try to find unobtrusive alternatives.

 

[Clansman]

My children are all older now, but I remember those days (not too far away) of struggling on and off with buggies! I'd always put it in the wheelchair space if available, and would obviously move if a wheelchair passenger needed it (although they never did) The wheelchair space is often fresh-air being carted around, and I see no problem with anyone else using it, as long as they let a wheelchair user have it if they need it.

I did once have a passenger moan at me that my youngest was making too much noise, I told him off for her benefit, and he screamed and created for the rest of the journey. I think she regretted saying anything in the end. People who moan about children making a noise clearly forget they were a child once. And if they say they were always silent and well behaved then they are a blatant liar and must never be trusted! Children are children, now if I hear a baby crying or children shouting, I just relax and think "Thank goodness I don't have to deal with them"

This.

 

[DarloRich]

My children are all older now, but I remember those days (not too far away) of struggling on and off with buggies! I'd always put it in the wheelchair space if available, and would obviously move if a wheelchair passenger needed it (although they never did) The wheelchair space is often fresh-air being carted around, and I see no problem with anyone else using it, as long as they let a wheelchair user have it if they need it.

I did once have a passenger moan at me that my youngest was making too much noise, I told him off for her benefit, and he screamed and created for the rest of the journey. I think she regretted saying anything in the end. People who moan about children making a noise clearly forget they were a child once. And if they say they were always silent and well behaved then they are a blatant liar and must never be trusted! Children are children, now if I hear a baby crying or children shouting, I just relax and think "Thank goodness I don't have to deal with them"

Is the correct answer. However this thread will bring out all the usual RUK anti children bias that many posters seem to hold. I wonder why?

 

[sportzbar]

I do see a lot of pushchairs on the routes I work and can empathise with both parents and other customers on the train, being a single parent who only a year or so ago was pushing my daughter in her chair. I made an effort to avoid busy trains where possible but some times you do have to travel at peak times. My TOC does have a policy of allowing pushchairs on but requiring them to be folded if space is at a premium. To be fair when working I have never had a serious problem with pushchairs, I just use a bit of diplomacy, understanding and respect to others that I was always taught growing up and will pass on to my daughter.

 

[cuccir]

I'm finding this an interesting thread as we've got a first 'proper'* rail trip with baby in February and I'm in two minds as to whether to bring the pushchair or just use our walking rucksack. We're heading to London so I'm also wondering if the pushchair would make the tube unpleasant too. So I will be reading on to see further comments and experiences!

*I'm discounting Danby-Commondale as part of a day out when she was 6 weeks old and tucked into a sling!

 

[sportzbar]

I'm finding this an interesting thread as we've got a first 'proper'* rail trip with baby in February and I'm in two minds as to whether to bring the pushchair or just use our walking rucksack. We're heading to London so I'm also wondering if the pushchair would make the tube unpleasant too. So I will be reading on to see further comments and experiences!

In all honesty for such a big trip with child, I would take both. Just don't load up the pushchair with bags so it can be folded easily. If possible I would recommend buying a small pushchair that is lightweight and easy to fold. I did this for travelling on trains and going on holiday abroad, made it so much easier. Best 50 quid spent.

 

[stut]

I'm finding this an interesting thread as we've got a first 'proper'* rail trip with baby in February and I'm in two minds as to whether to bring the pushchair or just use our walking rucksack. We're heading to London so I'm also wondering if the pushchair would make the tube unpleasant too. So I will be reading on to see further comments and experiences!

*I'm discounting Danby-Commondale as part of a day out when she was 6 weeks old and tucked into a sling!

How old is the baby? For London, I used to bring both (you need to give your shoulders and back a rest every so often!) but now he's 1, extended sling time is just too much for me.

As for the Tube (and don't forget the bus) it depends where. There are certainly routes that are easy with a pushchair (Thameslink helps, too), and routes that are more challenging. If there's two of you with a sling, it's easier still. If you're happy with a pushchair on an escalator (don't jump down my throat - some people are, some aren't, it's been done for years, and still is all over Europe) then that changes things again.

Have a look at the accessibility map of London to get an idea where the easiest stations to access are.

 

[virgintrain1]

XCs policy is the pushchair has to be folded at all times if it wants to travel. Although it depends on the staff/how busy it is for it to be enforced. Wheelchair space officially has to be kept clear by law.

 

[ComUtoR]

Should be a limit on the size of pushchairs on any public transport. You wouldn't see those ridiculous show off huge prams on any public transport in Japan for example.

What if you have two kids. Should double buggies be banned ? You would simply end up having 2 small ones instead, potentially causing more issues.

 

[twpsaesneg]

XCs policy is the pushchair has to be folded at all times if it wants to travel. Although it depends on the staff/how busy it is for it to be enforced. Wheelchair space officially has to be kept clear by law.

Which law?

 

[cuccir]

How old is the baby?...

In all honesty for such a big trip with child, I would take both....

Thanks for the suggestions. She'll be 9 months when we travel. To date I think her tolerance has generally been a little longer when carried and as it's an overnight stay I think suitcase might trump pushchair: so my back is just going to have to put up with it!!! However buying a cheap lightweight one is not a bad shout - she's probably just about entering an age when she'd fit into those. We're mainly visiting friends rather than sightseeing all day so she can go on the floor or be held when we do that and that will ease the carrying!

 

[Master29]

Should be a limit on the size of pushchairs on any public transport. You wouldn't see those ridiculous show off huge prams on any public transport in Japan for example.

Really. On this logic why not limit the size of wheelchairs, cases, which regularly clog up disabled areas and hand baggage. All of which can also be "ridiculous show off types" as you put it. It`s not a choice for some people is it. Someone has already mentioned they had a hospital appointment but were treated like they had brought rabies into the country.....And you don`t get people herded onto trains with sticks in the UK do you.

 

[virgintrain1]

Which law?

Disabled people's protection policy (DPPP)

 

[twpsaesneg]

Disabled people's protection policy (DPPP)

Not actually a law then.
The XC DPPP is this:- https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.u...ccessible-guide-to-policies-and-practices.pdf
Nowhere does it state that the wheelchair space must be kept clear.

Not having a pop at you btw. But it does get irritating when people including traincrew start shouting "its the LAW!!!" when it isn't.
The Disability Discrimination Act doesn't say that disabled facilities must be maintained solely for disabled persons use. Otherwise, taking that to a logical conclusion, noone other than a disabled person would be able to use the disabled toilets on a train.

It may well be XC policy on board to keep the disabled space clear of luggage and possibly even pushchairs, but it's not the law. However recent case law does suggest that if the space were required by a disabled passenger than the TOC would be in breach of the DDA if they failed to clear it and make it available.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38663322

 

[Thebaz]

This.

Yep.

There seem to be a lot of people who don't realise that with young children and buggies come all the clutter that is required to keep them vaguely clean, protected from the elements and entertained. For the first 3 years at least you daren't leave home without any of this stuff even for very short trips! So, most of the time buggies cannot be folded even when the child is not in there. Most parents in my experience do their level best to keep buggies from inconveniencing people.

 

[TUC]

Yep.

There seem to be a lot of people who don't realise that with young children and buggies come all the clutter that is required to keep them vaguely clean, protected from the elements and entertained. For the first 3 years at least you daren't leave home without any of this stuff even for very short trips! So, most of the time buggies cannot be folded even when the child is not in there. Most parents in my experience do their level best to keep buggies from inconveniencing people.

I'm all for life being easier for parents in terms of being able to keep the child in a pushchair if possible. However I do think many current day parents, such as in the comment above, over-estimate the difficulty of having to fold the pushchair up if necessary. Those of us who had young childrrn 20 years ago, when there were far fewer trains with pushchair spaces, still had the same amount of additional clutter of changing bags etc. but still managed to fold the pushchair up and move the child into our lao. It's far from impossible.