Question about Reservation Displays

[AvidTrainGuy]

Hello all,

I'm not a regular train traveller. About a month ago now, I was on a CrossCountry service, sitting in a seat. The seat I was in, and the one next to me both displayed as "Available" on the LCD screen above the seats. A couple got on at the stop before mine and said they had reserved the seats. I checked the display again, and both seats were still displayed as being "Available". I told this to the man, who was a bit aggressive, saying he didn't care what the display said and threatened to get the "train officer". I was planning to stand my ground, but was told by another passenger that the displays are incorrect/not always updated. Not being particularly familiar with trains or how the reservation system works, and the next stop being the one I was getting off at, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and got up to go to the exit door.

So my question is - how true is this about inaccurate reservation displays? And what is the policy if a passenger claims to have a reservation, but the display above the seat does not back them up?

Many thanks

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

It's extremely rare that they're incorrect - even though it's reported very regularly.

Most of the time it's either downright fraud (buying tickets, refunding them and then still travelling and having the cheek to insist on "your" seat) OR the train has been amended/retimed or perhaps swapped for a different type or length of train, and reservations cancelled/moved around on a planned basis, and customers haven't noticed or received the email notifications etc telling them this. If they didn't book online, then they'd only know if they were proactively looking for changes.

Most of the time it's customer error, they have tickets for a different train, or the same train, but actually dated tomorrow etc.

If the seat shows as available, then it's available for anyone.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Most of the time it's customer error, they have tickets for a different train, or the same train, but actually dated tomorrow etc.

Or they are in the wrong coach. I would have politely asked them if they were sure they were in the right coach and asked if I could see their ticket to check for them.

 

[BRX]

Yes, best first step is to politely say, can I check your ticket in case you've got the wrong carriage.

 

[stuu]

Generally if the display is showing anything, it is correct in my experience. I would agree that asking to check their ticket is the right approach

 

[WesternLancer]

But cross country also have the annoying reservation on route thing where the train can commence its journey and an unreserved seat can be sold and reserved en route. So available when you got on and sat down but then later becomes reserved without you knowing. Tho I assume the display then updates too.

Back in the day this couldn’t happen as reservations were not taken after iirc 18.00 the evening before departure.

Assume this is not the explanation in this case.

Hello all,

I'm not a regular train traveller. About a month ago now, I was on a CrossCountry service, sitting in a seat. The seat I was in, and the one next to me both displayed as "Available" on the LCD screen above the seats. A couple got on at the stop before mine and said they had reserved the seats. I checked the display again, and both seats were still displayed as being "Available". I told this to the man, who was a bit aggressive, saying he didn't care what the display said and threatened to get the "train officer". I was planning to stand my ground, but was told by another passenger that the displays are incorrect/not always updated. Not being particularly familiar with trains or how the reservation system works, and the next stop being the one I was getting off at, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and got up to go to the exit door.

So my question is - how true is this about inaccurate reservation displays? And what is the policy if a passenger claims to have a reservation, but the display above the seat does not back them up?

Many thanks

I think the ‘policy’ would be the passenger claiming it was their seat would be expected to get the on board staff to resolve the problem technically. If the seat says available then I don’t think you’re expected to vacate it on the say so of another passenger. Tho I’m sure that does happen often.

If you have a reservation and it isn’t honoured and the staff can’t find you an alternative seat then I think you can claim some sort of ticket refund.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

I've certainly had valid reservations on XC in the past which haven't shown on the displays.

Usually it's when I've reserved at short notice (or got a SeatFrog upgrade) and I suspect the updated reservations hadn't been downloaded yet.
Either that or the reservations never got loaded for the whole trip.

Thankfully the seat has been free anyway or there's been an equivalent available seat nearby so not worth the hassle of moving someone.

 

[dmncf]

I travelled on a CrossCountry Voyager and I asked the conductor why my seat reservation wasn't shown on on the display; the display was showing unreserved. The conducted told me that this was due to a fault with the train loading its reservations, rather than that the reservation didn't exist.

 

[Somewhere]

I've noticed that if you book a seat close to departure time, although you'll have your email confirmation of the seats, they won't be displayed on the train.
I think the assertion of others here that the displays are rarely inaccurate is, inaccurate.

 

[Adam Williams]

I've noticed that if you book a seat close to departure time, although you'll have your email confirmation of the seats, they won't be displayed on the train.

This is TOC-dependent.

I've booked seats after departure on a Pendo, and the reservation displays updated within about 2 minutes.

 

[ALEMASTER]

Were other reservations displayed? Quite possibly they failed to download, maybe an issue with the mobile network connection

 

[dmncf]

Were other reservations displayed? Quite possibly they failed to download, maybe an issue with the mobile network connection

You've reminded me that the when I had a reservation that wasn't shown on the display, the conductor's explanation was 'failed to download'. This wasn't a reservation that I had made on the day of travel. The conductor's explanation seemed to be that any reservation could 'fail to download'.

 

[yorkie]

Hello all,

I'm not a regular train traveller. About a month ago now, I was on a CrossCountry service, sitting in a seat. The seat I was in, and the one next to me both displayed as "Available" on the LCD screen above the seats. A couple got on at the stop before mine and said they had reserved the seats. I checked the display again, and both seats were still displayed as being "Available". I told this to the man, who was a bit aggressive, saying he didn't care what the display said and threatened to get the "train officer". I was planning to stand my ground, but was told by another passenger that the displays are incorrect/not always updated. Not being particularly familiar with trains or how the reservation system works, and the next stop being the one I was getting off at, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and got up to go to the exit door.

So my question is - how true is this about inaccurate reservation displays?

Difficult to say what the cause could have been; if you post it at the time and reveal the service, coach, seat etc, it may be possible for someone to determine this.

And what is the policy if a passenger claims to have a reservation, but the display above the seat does not back them up?

Many thanks

If the display says "Available", then no-one has the right to remove you.

If the customer has a problem, they can speak to the Train Manager, who may be in a position to suggest an alternative seat, if there are any available.

 

[waveyswirley]

Me and my partner made a return trip on Crosscountry Birmingham New Street to Newton Abbott last year where our reservations didn't display on either journey. In both instances a member of staff made an announcement that the displays weren't working properly and that passengers sit in their reserved seats if possible.

 

[AvidTrainGuy]

Thanks all for your responses. Yeah, it's definitely true I could have checked their paperwork - they did mention that they had some but didn't offer to show it to me and nor did I ask to see it. The guy jumped straight to aggression and "I'll get the train officer".

If their paperwork specified the correct seats, but the display doesn't back them up, do I accept their paperwork or is it still up to the train manager to decide? I just want to know everything in case this kind of thing happens again.

Were other reservations displayed? Quite possibly they failed to download, maybe an issue with the mobile network connection

I didn't really check other displays. My process was to see an empty seat, check the overhead display and sit in it if it was available - and this service was pretty busy, so there weren't really any empty seats for me to check except for the one I ended up sitting in.

No announcement about displays not working were made, so I assumed they were working?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks all for your responses. Yeah, it's definitely true I could have checked their paperwork - they did mention that they had some but didn't offer to show it to me and nor did I ask to see it. The guy jumped straight to aggression and "I'll get the train officer".

If their paperwork specified the correct seats, but the display doesn't back them up, do I accept their paperwork or is it still up to the train manager to decide? I just want to know everything in case this kind of thing happens again.



I didn't really check other displays. My process was to see an empty seat, check the overhead display and sit in it if it was available - and this service was pretty busy, so there weren't really any empty seats for me to check except for the one I ended up sitting in.

No announcement about displays not working were made, so I assumed they were working?

I think it’s up to train staff to sort it out in the scenario you describe (if the rules were to be applied). Tho for the person to go and manage to find one and get them to come and do it is another matter.

The issue is that the other person reserved a seat and xc are doing nothing to honour it. The other passengers argument is with xc not with you. I guess the staff member could then ask you to leave so xc can honour their reservation with the other passenger. Not sure what right if any you might have to refuse to move on the basis you had sat on the seat in good faith that it was ‘available’ for the duration of your journey.

Of course in reality you were happy to move.

 

[yorkie]

Me and my partner made a return trip on Crosscountry Birmingham New Street to Newton Abbott last year where our reservations didn't display on either journey. In both instances a member of staff made an announcement that the displays weren't working properly and that passengers sit in their reserved seats if possible.

"If possible" doesn't mean evict anyone, but you always get one or two bullies who think that invisible reservations still apply.

A more sensible announcement would be to say to sit anywhere, and also give an indication as to which part of the train was the quieter part.

Unfortunately, XC aren't always the clearest with announcements.

Not sure what right if any you might have to refuse to move on the basis you had sat on the seat in good faith that it was ‘available’ for the duration of your journey.

They would have no right whatsoever.

 

[AvidTrainGuy]

I think it’s up to train staff to sort it out in the scenario you describe (if the rules were to be applied). Tho for the person to go and manage to find one and get them to come and do it is another matter.

The issue is that the other person reserved a seat and xc are doing nothing to honour it. The other passengers argument is with xc not with you. I guess the staff member could then ask you to leave so xc can honour their reservation with the other passenger. Not sure what right if any you might have to refuse to move on the basis you had sat on the seat in good faith that it was ‘available’ for the duration of your journey.

Of course in reality you were happy to move.

Oh I wasn't suggesting I wouldn't move if a train manager told me "Their reservation is good, the display is incorrect" - obviously I would move in that instance. It was just on the point about paperwork v display, and if I should move or wait for a train manager to tell me what the score is.

It was just fortunate that the next stop after they got on was the one I was due to get off at, so I didn't really care too much about moving but I wanted to better understand the situation about reservation displays and what I should do if it happens again. It's possible that the display was wrong, or they they misread their tickets and were on the wrong coach, or wrong set of seats. I really don't know.

But I really appreciate everybody's responses here, it's definitely given me a better insight into what can go wrong in terms of either a technological failure, or human error. Hopefully if it happens again, I will be able to respond better than I did. Thanks all.

 

[WesternLancer]

Oh I wasn't suggesting I wouldn't move if a train manager told me "Their reservation is good, the display is incorrect" - obviously I would move in that instance. It was just on the point about paperwork v display, and if I should move or wait for a train manager to tell me what the score is.

It was just fortunate that the next stop after they got on was the one I was due to get off at, so I didn't really care too much about moving but I wanted to better understand the situation about reservation displays and what I should do if it happens again. It's possible that the display was wrong, or they they misread their tickets and were on the wrong coach, or wrong set of seats. I really don't know.

But I really appreciate everybody's responses here, it's definitely given me a better insight into what can go wrong in terms of either a technological failure, or human error. Hopefully if it happens again, I will be able to respond better than I did. Thanks all.

Thanks. Yes. Completely understand.

 

[billh]

We had exactly this problem last year on a very crowded Cross country service from Birmingham. Advance purchase paper tickets , weeks before , seat reservations . After a struggle to get on the train due to being so busy, our seats were occupied and the display said "available" Couldn't really argue with the people sat there, they were entirely innocent. Had to stand until Cheltenham Spa, partner had recently had a new knee and a hip replacement! Fortunately two people nearby got off at Cheltenham so we could sit down for the rest of the journey to South Devon. I questioned the train manager later and got some excuse about failure to download reservations,even though the data was available weeks before.

 

[Falcon1200]

A few weeks ago I travelled, without a seat reservation, on an XC service and sat in a 'This seat may be reserved' place. To avoid being turfed out mid-journey I asked the Train Manager (TM) if they could reserve the seat for me; Which they did, and the display changed to reserved for my journey! Only for another Mr Angry to demand the seat later on, stating that he had reserved it ages ago, and no amount of me showing him the display made any difference. As I was alighting at the next stop anyway I moved and stood to my destination. I did mention this to the TM (a different one as they had changed over mid route) who said the issue might be connected to this particular Voyager being one of the ex-Avanti sets.

More recently I made a similar trip, again without a reservation and in a 'may be reserved seat', without any problem, only to find when I left the train that the seat was now reserved from an earlier point - Yet no-one had challenged me or demanded the seat!

The whole process of reserving seats someone is already sat in is a nonsense; Either TMs should reserve the seat for the first occupier, or it should be scrapped.

 

[BRX]

I've been on a train recently where the reservations are obvious incorrect. I told the train manager, and it was fixed by them pressing a button somewhere - it seemed that the train had not been properly set up for departure.

On German trains the displays sometimes say something along the lines of "may become reserved en route" and ideally we should have something like that too, for seats that can be reserved after departure.

 

[Snow1964]

I questioned the train manager later and got some excuse about failure to download reservations,even though the data was available weeks before.

There is an interesting question that arises, if the train fails to download the reservations, why does XC stay quiet, and not email everyone with a confirmed booking to advise them.

If you can get an email confirmation when you book, why not an email update when they fail and change it to unreserved seats

 

[Falcon1200]

"may become reserved en route" and ideally we should have something like that too, for seats that can be reserved after departure.

What happens to the unsuspecting passenger already sitting in that seat?!!

 

[Merle Haggard]

This is TOC-dependent.

I've booked seats after departure on a Pendo, and the reservation displays updated within about 2 minutes.

The corollary of this is that if you sit in a seat that's shown as 'available' you have to frequently check that the display hasn't changed. Frequently - the above suggests every two minutes.

What happens to the unsuspecting passenger already sitting in that seat?!!

You get told to vacate it. Has happened to me on XC.

 

[Falcon1200]

You get told to vacate it. Has happened to me on XC.

Which is IMHO an absolute nonsense. The system should either be revised or scrapped as per my post #21!

 

[WesternLancer]

Which is IMHO an absolute nonsense. The system should either be revised or scrapped as per my post #21!

Yes. Nothing wrong with selling cheap advance fares last minute. Just make it clear to the buyer it doesn’t come with a seat reservation. The person in the seat may have paid more for a walk up ticket bought a few minutes before departure at the station.

 

[BRX]

What happens to the unsuspecting passenger already sitting in that seat?!!

It shows from the start of the journey, so anyone choosing to sit in that seat knows there's a risk they might be asked to move.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Which is IMHO an absolute nonsense. The system should either be revised or scrapped as per my post #21!

Seems to be an XC thing.

My most extreme personal experience was when I boarded the DMF at New Street. The reservations were all blank, and there was no-one else in the coach. The T.M., accompanied by a passenger, approached me and said, bluntly, 'you're sitting in this lady's seat, MOVE' To be clear, this was the first approach I had received.

I did ask where I should sit, to avoid the same problem occurring later,. Presumably this reasonable extension of his logic had never occurred to him but when presented with it he simply walked off silently never to be seen again.

This is I accept slightly different to the 'may be reserved en route' display - it was the case (and may still be) that the display over every seat in the DMF either had that or a firm reservation.

 

[swaldman]

Displays aside, I've been asked to move by people a fair few times when in what I thought was an unreserved seat.

70% of the time they have the wrong coach. 10% of the time the train has no reservations for whatever reason and they haven't realised / don't want to realise. Perhaps 10% of the time something sillier, like the wrong seat numbers, or the wrong train, or similar.
And the remaining, very occasional, time, they don't have a reservation but they are hoping that you will move and give them the seat.

I guess the selling of reservations en route means that nowadays they might occasionally be in the right. But my approach regardless would be to politely ask to see their seat reservation.