Questioned regarding lack of scan at origin location stated on ticket

[L2789]

Hi all,

I was asked to provide my train ticket by a greater anglia inspector. I had bought a valid ticket for that specific train, however as the barriers were already opened I did not need to scan it. When the inspector scanned it with his device , he questioned me as to why I did not validate it at the departing station. I have explained what happened , he did not seem to believe me and asked me what my address was (I assume to see whether I was genuinely coming from that station). He then said “yeah that’s fine” and carried on checking the other passengers’ tickets. Should I be worried that a prosecution letter may come to my address ? He did not ask me for my name and did not write my address down.

Also out of curiosity, can they find out your details by scanning your e-ticket?

Thanks in advance.

Lucas

 

[methecooldude]

Hi all,

I was asked to provide my train ticket by a greater anglia inspector. I had bought a valid ticket for that specific train, however as the barriers were already opened I did not need to scan it. When the inspector scanned it with his device , he questioned me as to why I did not validate it at the departing station. I have explained what happened , he did not seem to believe me and asked me what my address was (I assume to see whether I was genuinely coming from that station). He then said “yeah that’s fine” and carried on checking the other passengers’ tickets. Should I be worried that a prosecution letter may come to my address ? He did not ask me for my name and did not write my address down.

Also out of curiosity, can they find out your details by scanning your e-ticket?

Thanks in advance.

Lucas

Hi Lucas,

Welcome to the forum

If the inspector did not write the address down, either on paper or electronically then you should be okay. I would hazard a guess he asked to check that you were not short faring. As I assume the address you gave is close enough to the origin of the ticket, its all good.

Words of advice, even if the barriers are open, scan your ticket

To answer your other question though, yes, your details can be obtain from the retailer of your ticket, this is permitted as data protection regulations have an exclusion for "the detection of crime"

 

[Titfield]

Hi all,

I was asked to provide my train ticket by a greater anglia inspector. I had bought a valid ticket for that specific train, however as the barriers were already opened I did not need to scan it. When the inspector scanned it with his device , he questioned me as to why I did not validate it at the departing station. I have explained what happened , he did not seem to believe me and asked me what my address was (I assume to see whether I was genuinely coming from that station). He then said “yeah that’s fine” and carried on checking the other passengers’ tickets. Should I be worried that a prosecution letter may come to my address ? He did not ask me for my name and did not write my address down.

Also out of curiosity, can they find out your details by scanning your e-ticket?

Thanks in advance.

Lucas

Because one way of avoiding "paying the fare" (getting a free ride) is to purchase an e ticket, use it - but not have it scanned at the departure station, en route, arrival station and then claim a refund. There is no proof of it being used.

He was trying to ascertain if you were doing this by deliberately avoiding scanning the ticket at the departure station (as the first step) but presumably was satisfied by your response and probably by your demeanour.

He was also carrying out a cursory check that it was plausible for you to be travelling from that station by seeing how close it was to the address you gave ie looking for short faring.

Yes the ticket scan can be used to trace you.

It doesnt sound as if you have done anything wrong (other than not scanning the ticket but his scan has now shown it to be used) so there shouldnt be anything coming your way.

 

[jfollows]

Hi all,

I was asked to provide my train ticket by a greater anglia inspector. I had bought a valid ticket for that specific train, however as the barriers were already opened I did not need to scan it. When the inspector scanned it with his device , he questioned me as to why I did not validate it at the departing station.

There is no requirement to "validate" a ticket by scanning it at an open barrier; it might often be a good idea to do so anyway but not doing to is not any kind of offence. I know I don't scan my ticket at an open barrier, for example at Manchester Piccadilly sometimes, and it's not something to worry about.
A lot of other countries have tickets which require validation before use, but that's not the case here - the ticket is valid for the train you're using or it isn't.
EDIT Even rarer tickets which need some kind of validation, such as a flexi-season ticket, don’t have to use barriers for the purpose of validation - the station may not have them, they may be broken etc.

 

[L2789]

Thank you all.

If they wanted to take it further, I have read that they would ask you for your name and address and caution you.

Is this a legal requirement? Should they inform you that they are investigating an offence ? Or will they just send the prosecution letter simply by requesting your address?

 

[L2789]

Hi all,

Out of curiosity.

I have read that when train inspectors want to prosecute rather than issue a penalty fare , they would need to ask for your name and address and caution you.

Is this a legal requirement? Should they inform you that they are investigating an offence ? Or will they just send the prosecution letter simply by requesting your address?

 

[jfollows]

The National Rail Conditions of Travel (https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf) state

9.2 If you are unable to present a valid Ticket when asked and the conditions set out in
Condition 6 do not apply, we are permitted in law to take one of the following measures:
9.2.1 To charge you the full undiscounted “anytime” single fare to a station
directly served by the train that you are on. You will not be entitled to any
discounts or special terms, or to a Ticket to a station other than one served
by the train that you are on; or
9.2.2 To charge you a Penalty Fare on certain trains and stations (see Condition
10 below); or
9.2.3 To report you for prosecution.

9.3 It is an offence under the Railway Byelaws to fail to provide your name and address
when requested.

In your case, this is purely a hypothetical enquiry because you had a valid ticket and the inspector was satisfied, end of story.

 

[L2789]

The National Rail Conditions of Travel (https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf) state


In your case, this is purely a hypothetical enquiry because you had a valid ticket and the inspector was satisfied, end of story.

Thank you , this had happened over 4 years ago anyways and I have not heard anything since.

 

[skyhigh]

Thank you , this had happened over 4 years ago anyways and I have not heard anything since.

So the event in your opening post happened 4 years ago?

 

[ikcdab]

So the event in your opening post happened 4 years ago?

If that's that case, it rather sounds as if you might be looking for loopholes in the system. Please be aware that fare evasion isn't worth it. Spend an hour reading posts on here and you will see why.

 

[185]

The inspector / guard could also be checking to find out if the gates at the station were open, to help work out how other passengers who may have boarded at that station without any tickets at all. Staff often get better, more accurate information from the passengers rather than the company.

 

[Undiscovered]

It's also worth noting that, just because the guard doesn't seem to be too focused on things, there's nothing stopping them sending a report off to their Digital Fraud team at a later.
Doing so, like this, is part of conflict avoidance training- get the facts from a brief, seemingly throwaway interaction, and then move on. It could be that there are other tickets, from your destination station, that have been scanned, leading to the assertion that the barriers are actually on.
Additionally, the ticket scan is time stamped, and this information can be used to remotely interrogate the train unit CCTV, to get a picture of the passenger, should one be required.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you , this had happened over 4 years ago anyways and I have not heard anything since.

There's a number of points that could emerge from this:
- for the specific incident, for most purposes if the railway is looking to prosecute they need to do so within six months. So they are now well out of time. You odn't ned to worry about this incident any more!
- it's also likely that even if they did take any details, they've been disposed of long ago (GDPR and so on says that personal data should only be retained if there's a good reason to do so*) so if there's been some more recent incident then realistically it's unlikely to be linked back to the one 4 years ago
- also note that a lot has happened in the last four years. In particular, e-tickets are much more of a thing now than they used to be. So while as people have advised there's still no requirement to scan in if the gate is open, you should expect that an e-ticket will be scanned electronically at a ticket inspection. Our understanding it that will gather enough information for the railway to contact you if something's wrong with that ticket.

*n.b. this is an extreme paraphrase of my understanding of GDPR, but I hope good enough for the current circumstances