Rail connection for Port Salford advancing ?

[high camera]

This press release from today shows promise


https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/po...mpaign=My utm campaign value&utm_medium=email

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This links in to the discussion in another thread about other rail freight terminals in the area, and the pressure on the South Junction (Castlefield) route through Manchester.

Partington/Carrington rail freight terminal

When will network rail put in lines to make this happen it will take the strain off the Castlefield corridor? https://www.tramseat.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/castlefield.pdf It would provide jobs and help cope with the rise of freight going onto rail transport.

www.railforums.co.uk

But any planning approval for the Port Salford link must be welcome.
I note there is one haulier (Great Bear) already based there, but any more requires the availability of new rail/road links.
The next question is what state the Network Rail/Peel Ports plans are in for the branch off the Chat Moss route.
I gather we are looking at a single west-facing junction now rather then spurs in both directions.

 

[Class 170101]

Bit misleading calling it an airport, looks more like an airfield for prviate flights rather than convential aviation.

 

[najaB]

Bit misleading calling it an airport, looks more like an airfield for prviate flights rather than convential aviation.

It is an airport (ICAO code is EGCB) though you are correct that it doesn't have any scheduled flights, the last one operated during the 1940s.

 

[8A Rail]

Bearing in mind, this plan has been going on for many years, in reality not going anywhere fast.

Here is a link for the original proposal - https://peellandp.co.uk/our-expertise/port-salford/

I would highlight this paragraph ....

What is happening with the rail link?
The proposed warehouses at Port Salford are planned to be connected to the national rail network via a new link to the Manchester – Liverpool line at Chat Moss. The proposed new rail link, will carry freight trains to and from the West Coast Mainline. Planning and discussion with Network Rail is ongoing.
How will the new rail link cross the A57 Liverpool Road?
The proposed new rail link will cross over the top of the new dual carriageway on a new bridge.

And who is paying the bill for this including a new rail bridge. Mmmmm not happening anytime soon then.

 

[The Planner]

Bearing in mind, this plan has been going on for many years, in reality not going anywhere fast.

Here is a link for the original proposal - https://peellandp.co.uk/our-expertise/port-salford/

I would highlight this paragraph ....

What is happening with the rail link?
The proposed warehouses at Port Salford are planned to be connected to the national rail network via a new link to the Manchester – Liverpool line at Chat Moss. The proposed new rail link, will carry freight trains to and from the West Coast Mainline. Planning and discussion with Network Rail is ongoing.
How will the new rail link cross the A57 Liverpool Road?
The proposed new rail link will cross over the top of the new dual carriageway on a new bridge.

And who is paying the bill for this including a new rail bridge. Mmmmm not happening anytime soon then.

Peel Ports will pay if they want it built.

 

[snowball]

I would highlight this paragraph ....

How will the new rail link cross the A57 Liverpool Road?
The proposed new rail link will cross over the top of the new dual carriageway on a new bridge.

And who is paying the bill for this including a new rail bridge. Mmmmm not happening anytime soon then.

The abutments have existed for nine years, it just needs the superstructure!

 

[richard_S]

If there is a west facing junction how does it connect to the west coast main line!!! Since this is an old plan and the container ships have got bigger I dont think the locks can accommodate the new container ships. For the port of Salford to get freight trains in it needs the line connecting to Skelton junction at west Timperley.

 

[childwallblues]

On the Chat Moss there is a connection near Eccles which runs down to the Ship Canal. It is west facing and can access the WCML via Earlestown and Winwick Junction. I think this used to run to Mode Wheel but I do not know whether this is now Port Salford.
The Chat Moss route and the connection to the WCML is electrified at 25kv ac.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the Chat Moss there is a connection near Eccles which runs down to the Ship Canal. It is west facing and can access the WCML via Earlestown and Winwick Junction. I think this used to run to Mode Wheel but I do not know whether this is now Port Salford.
The Chat Moss route and the connection to the WCML is electrified at 25kv ac.

What was the last year that saw operational usage of that line and does the infrastructural system need upgrading

 

[billh]

Port Salford as it exists at the moment is at Irlam and uses the old steelworks quays just below Irlam locks. I think there's room for two ships at a time. This location is some distance to the west of the MSC rail connection at Eccles. The Eccles line runs (ran?) to Weaste wharf in its latter days where the last use was for cement trains with cargo loaded to ships bound for Ireland quite a few years ago now.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Port Salford as it exists at the moment is at Irlam and uses the old steelworks quays just below Irlam locks. I think there's room for two ships at a time. This location is some distance to the west of the MSC rail connection at Eccles. The Eccles line runs (ran?) to Weaste wharf in its latter days where the last use was for cement trains with cargo loaded to ships bound for Ireland quite a few years ago now.

Isn't Port Salford just west of the built-up area at Barton, and close to the airfield?
The rail link would be to the Chat Moss line between its M62 and M60 crossings, with WCML access at Golborne/Winwick.
The Weaste connection from Eccles is not part of the scheme.

On container ship size, I thought the plan was to use lighter barges for the canal section, loaded/unloaded in Liverpool ("tripping" in railway-speak).

 

[snowball]

Port Salford as I understand it is where LNW-GW Joint says and is not currently rail connected. The proposal since the facility was first developed 10 or more years ago has been to connect it to the electric Chat Moss line by a new spur. The main structure on this spur would be a bridge over the A57. The abutments of the bridge were completed 9 years ago as part of the scheme to divert the A57. Completion of the bridge would depend on Peel funding it. When I last heard the spur was proposed to have a flat triangular junction with the Chat Moss line but it now seems from this thread that only the western curve is still on the cards. The junction would be just east of the bridge where the M62 goes over the Chat Moss line and about 1.5-2 miles wet of Patricroft station.

 

[richard_S]

Isn't Port Salford just west of the built-up area at Barton, and close to the airfield?
The rail link would be to the Chat Moss line between its M62 and M60 crossings, with WCML access at Golborne/Winwick.
The Weaste connection from Eccles is not part of the scheme.

On container ship size, I thought the plan was to use lighter barges for the canal section, loaded/unloaded in Liverpool ("tripping" in railway-speak).

It would make the costs none profitable moving from sea going container ships to barges. I cant see that working. When the idea was first thought sea going container ships were a lot smaller than those used today.

Port Salford as I understand it is where LNW-GW Joint says and is not currently rail connected. The proposal since the facility was first developed 10 or more years ago has been to connect it to the electric Chat Moss line by a new spur. The main structure on this spur would be a bridge over the A57. The abutments of the bridge were completed 9 years ago as part of the scheme to divert the A57. Completion of the bridge would depend on Peel funding it. When I last heard the spur was proposed to have a flat triangular junction with the Chat Moss line but it now seems from this thread that only the western curve is still on the cards. The junction would be just east of the bridge where the M62 goes over the Chat Moss line and about 1.5-2 miles wet of Patricroft station.

There is no connection to the WCML going west.

 

[zwk500]

For clarity, here is the final masterplan from a 2018 document:

(Picture showing final masterplan of Phase 2 of Port Salford with rail line heading north from the Quayside between the Cemetary and Airport and then a potential triangular junction with the Chat Moss line just to the east of the M62 motorway.)

The Eastern (Manchester-facing) spur doesn't appear on later plans from a very brief google image search, the only connection planned is facing Liverpool, which will allow access to the WCML at the Newton-Le-Willows/Earlestown triangles.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is no connection to the WCML going west.

Yes there is, turn left at Earlestown to reach Winwick Jn to head south.
Or turn right at Parkside to reach Golborne Jn to head north.

 

[richard_S]

Ooops followed the wrong line.

 

[Hadders]

I’m familiar with this area due to reasonably frequent visits to the Salford City Stadium (as an away supporter). I thought the plan was to extend the tram line from Eccles and this was why bridge abutments were put in place when the A57 was re-routed a few years ago.

 

[richard_S]

I’m familiar with this area due to reasonably frequent visits to the Salford City Stadium (as an away supporter). I thought the plan was to extend the tram line from Eccles and this was why bridge abutments were put in place when the A57 was re-routed a few years ago.

The bridge abutments would line up for the port line. You can see them on Google maps.

 

[snowball]

I’m familiar with this area due to reasonably frequent visits to the Salford City Stadium (as an away supporter). I thought the plan was to extend the tram line from Eccles and this was why bridge abutments were put in place when the A57 was re-routed a few years ago.

There are plans to extend Metrolink to the stadium area and Port Salford, possibly by two routes, one from the Trafford Centre and one from Eccles. The last I heard, the Trafford Centre route was more likely to happen, but I'm not up to date. Maybe both routes will be built eventually.

The half-built bridge over the A57 has nothing to do with either of these routes. The Metrolink route from the Trafford Centre would cross the Ship Canal by means of the lifting bridge built some years ago alongside the M60. The lifting deck of the bridge was designed with space for Metrolink at the side of the road, locally reduced to single track.

 

[Hadders]

The bridge abutments would line up for the port line. You can see them on Google maps.

There are plans to extend Metrolink to the stadium area and Port Salford, possibly by two routes, one from the Trafford Centre and one from Eccles. The last I heard, the Trafford Centre route was more likely to happen, but I'm not up to date. Maybe both routes will be built eventually.

The half-built bridge over the A57 has nothing to do with either of these routes. The Metrolink route from the Trafford Centre would cross the Ship Canal by means of the lifting bridge built some years ago alongside the M60. The lifting deck of the bridge was designed with space for Metrolink at the side of the road, locally reduced to single track.

Ah ok, that makes sense. I knew I’d heard something about a Metrolink extension.

The stadium really is an awful place to get to. I’ve tried several ways:

- Driven it (but it’s a long way from Hertfordshire)
- Tram to Eccles then 67 bus
- Tram to Eccles and walked
- 67 bus all the way from the city centre
- Train to Patricroft and walk

Train to Patricroft is my preferred route as the walk is along the Port Salford Greenway taking about 40 minutes. That said the area immediately surrounding Patricroft station can feel a little intimidating around 22:15.

 

[8A Rail]

Peel Ports will pay if they want it built.

I thought that but currently I don't see Peel currently spending any money on this scheme for a number of reasons. Currently the sea container market is not buoyant in the light of the economic climate, and no sign at moment it will improve. As far as 'rail' is concerned, Peel's priority is to increase the length of Seaforth CT sidings to accomodate 775 metre trains, tender for this contract has already gone out and poss a contractor has been signed up. Last heard, this will happen over the next two years (may be sooner).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The half-built bridge over the A57 has nothing to do with either of these routes. The Metrolink route from the Trafford Centre would cross the Ship Canal by means of the lifting bridge built some years ago alongside the M60. The lifting deck of the bridge was designed with space for Metrolink at the side of the road, locally reduced to single track.

Did not a problem occur with the lifting bridge towers sometime after their construction?

 

[Hadders]

Did not a problem occur with the lifting bridge towers sometime after their construction?

There was a collapse of some sort, iirc.

 

[richard_S]

For clarity, here is the final masterplan from a 2018 document:
View attachment 137784
(Picture showing final masterplan of Phase 2 of Port Salford with rail line heading north from the Quayside between the Cemetary and Airport and then a potential triangular junction with the Chat Moss line just to the east of the M62 motorway.)

The Eastern (Manchester-facing) spur doesn't appear on later plans from a very brief google image search, the only connection planned is facing Liverpool, which will allow access to the WCML at the Newton-Le-Willows/Earlestown triangles.

I would think the east link has been removed due to no paths in or out via castlefield.

I have just emailed Peel about the port waiting for a reply which I will post here if allowed.

 

[geoffk]

If this line was built would it have any impact on the use of Castlefield by freight trains to/from Trafford Park? I assume not as it would be new traffic.

 

[snowball]

Did not a problem occur with the lifting bridge towers sometime after their construction?

Yes, the lifting deck was in a dramatic collapse while raised for testing prior to opening. It was caught on video. I think the deck had to be rebuilt from scratch. If anything much was ever published about the causes, I didn't see it. It was probably the subject of court cases.

If this line was built would it have any impact on the use of Castlefield by freight trains to/from Trafford Park? I assume not as it would be new traffic.

Some years ago on this forum I think Joseph_Locke advocated moving the freight terminal from Trafford Park to Port Salford to remove freight from the Castlefield corridor.

 

[The Planner]

If this line was built would it have any impact on the use of Castlefield by freight trains to/from Trafford Park? I assume not as it would be new traffic.

It might take some away, but not to the point of reducing trains.

 

[richard_S]

Yes, the lifting deck was in a dramatic collapse while raised for testing prior to opening. It was caught on video. I think the deck had to be rebuilt from scratch. If anything much was ever published about the causes, I didn't see it. It was probably the subject of court cases.


Some years ago on this forum I think Joseph_Locke advocated moving the freight terminal from Trafford Park to Port Salford to remove freight from the Castlefield corridor.

I would have thought that the size of the port of Salford could not take all the freight that goes into Trafford park its too small. Manchester does need another freight terminal but it will have to be away from the Castlefield corridor as there are no more paths available. Port of Salford is a small site the better site would be at Carrington there is a vast amount of space there.

 

[Tim_UK]

Bit misleading calling it an airport, looks more like an airfield for prviate flights rather than convential aviation.

Barton (EGCB) is probably one of the busiest small airports in the UK. Plenty of private aircraft. A lot of helicopters. Air ambulance and police air services too. It is a major resource for Manchester. Loads and loads of helicopters in when major events are on. There are no facilities for small aircraft at Manchester big airport (EGCC). - it is just too busy.

Barton is also very friendly to visitors. You can park for free, there are 2 cafes. It is totally fine to just sit and watch aircraft.

There is some work happening at the airport at the moment. The planning application is basically shifting some of the runways west a bit, but I don't think this reflects the current work.
The airfield is constrained by National Grid power lines to the west. You take off and aim over a pylon. Don't worry, there is loads of space. But I'm pretty sure it factors into any safety case to move or enhance the runways.

The stadium really is an awful place to get to. I’ve tried several ways:

- Driven it (but it’s a long way from Hertfordshire)
- Tram to Eccles then 67 bus
- Tram to Eccles and walked
- 67 bus all the way from the city centre
- Train to Patricroft and walk

Helicopter next time