Rail day tour patronage

[railfan99]

I am a long way from the UK but occasionally read how it's 'in recession' - bear in mind different countries have varying definitions of that term.

It's early stages for your summer, but how are day steam/diesel main line rail tours booking, assuming they can operate (if the touring company so desires) notwithstanding ASLEF or other strikes.

Is the patronage of any you've been on what you'd expect, or have the number of carriages changed from previous years?

 

[Mountain Man]

I am a long way from the UK but occasionally read how it's 'in recession' - bear in mind different countries have varying definitions of that term.

It's early stages for your summer, but how are day steam/diesel main line rail tours booking, assuming they can operate (if the touring company so desires) notwithstanding ASLEF or other strikes.

Is the patronage of any you've been on what you'd expect, or have the number of carriages changed from previous years?

Recession is 2 quarters of negative growth. That's a standard global economic definition. It doesn't by country as you suggest.

 

[Iskra]

Railtours are generally doing fine, but there are less of them running due to issues around the supply of compliant rakes of carriages, so the custom is spread around fewer tours currently.

 

[renegademaster]

Plenty are still selling out 11 car trains. Most of the clietnelle of railtours are retirees who fluctuations in the economy dont affect as much as wage workers

 

[12LDA28C]

I am a long way from the UK but occasionally read how it's 'in recession' - bear in mind different countries have varying definitions of that term.

It's early stages for your summer, but how are day steam/diesel main line rail tours booking, assuming they can operate (if the touring company so desires) notwithstanding ASLEF or other strikes.

Is the patronage of any you've been on what you'd expect, or have the number of carriages changed from previous years?

ASLEF strikes would not normally affect the operation of railtours although an RMT strike affecting signallers certainly would.

It's also only just springtime here (not that you'd know it from the weather), nowhere near summer yet. A 3-day tour I was on last weekend was probably only 2/3 full although at least 2 nights' overnight accommodation was required which would have put some potential customers off.

 

[matt]

The tour I was on yesterday to Pwllheli looked fairly full.

 

[12LDA28C]

Plenty are still selling out 11 car trains. Most of the clietnelle of railtours are retirees who fluctuations in the economy dont affect as much as wage workers

This depends entirely on the kind of railtour. Whilst your statement certainly applies to luxury / dining tours such as the Northern Belle, Midland Pullman and Statesman, the same can't really be said for 'new engine' or 'spin and win' type tours which see plenty of younger people on board.

 

[railfan99]

Railtours are generally doing fine, but there are less of them running due to issues around the supply of compliant rakes of carriages, so the custom is spread around fewer tours currently.

Is this due to the West Coast Railway Company's ongoing battles with the Office of Rail and Road that have played out through the courts including your High Court, so some other reason?

 

[Bill57p9]

Is this due to the West Coast Railway Company's ongoing battles with the Office of Rail and Road that have played out through the courts including your High Court, so some other reason?

WCRC are arguing over regulation 5 of the Railway Safety Regulations 1999 which requires central door locking.

Currently WCRC only have one rake compliant or exempt, and this is air braked only, and only one air braked main line certified steam locomotive, Tangmere. SRPS had a main line certified rake however this certification has lapsed and neither exemptions nor compliance are in place.

Other heritage stock operators (e.g. Belmond and Vintage Trains) have been granted exemption extensions to March 2028 having agreed a plan to comply with regulation 5 - hence they are still operating.

There are 2 key challenges with compliance. First is the technical: the standard BR design requires a reliable air pressure and power supply. The former is not present on vacuum brake trains and the latter not present with Steam. Whilst power can be provided by a generator, this is requires another vehicle which the operator needs to have and reduces maximum train length - which is a particular issue on certain routes such as the West Highland Line, hence the Jacobite.
Other MK1 CDL solutions (Chiltern bubble car, Hastings Diesels) require a reliable power source - see above!

The second challenge are the economics and specifically return on investment: Regulation 4 covers crash worthiness and is also being covered on exemptions, currently again to March 2028. Therefore the business case for fitting CDL has to be cognisant that there is no guarantee that the stock can operate from 1 Apr 28.

Hope this helps explain the landscape.

 

[railfan99]

WCRC are arguing over regulation 5 of the Railway Safety Regulations 1999 which requires central door locking.

Excellent explanation of what is to non-technical individuals like myself at times a complex subject.

In my state of Victoria, Oz we don't have vacuum braking IIRC, but Westinghouse air brakes plus dynamic braking. We still allow wooden bodied 100 year old plus passenger cars (carriages) on main and branch line steam/disel excursions but locos are limited to 80 kilometres an hour, way below the 75mph I enjoyed on a steam rail tour in England in September 2023.

 

[Bill57p9]

I should have added that these UK regulations apply to railways* with speeds >25mph, so do not apply to the vast majority of heritage railways.

* "Railways" rather than "Trains", so they apply to 25mph trains operating on railways with greater traffic speeds, such as the NYMR operation between Grosmont and Pickering. NYMR have an exemption to March 2028 specifically with a 25mph limit.

I believe Great Central Railway has a specific agreement.


I have said UK here but am unsure whether they apply in NI

 

[43096]

Whilst power can be provided by a generator, this is requires another vehicle which the operator needs to have and reduces maximum train length - which is a particular issue on certain routes such as the West Highland Line, hence the Jacobite.

Not necessarily. The power draw for a CDL system isn't great, so a small genset in the van area of the brake vehicle would be feasible. The brake vehicle has to be in the train anyway, so there is no reduction in train length and no reduced passenger capacity.