Rail enthusiast lingo

[Bevan Price]

Don't forget "DREADFUL" ,meant rather good rather than rather bad

I think the use of "dreadful" may have originated with "Wellington", a.k.a. the late David Rollason (from Wellington, Shropshire).
One of his other sayings was "sprechen sie Deutsch?" (Do you speak German). He didn't and I gather he once got a bit embarrassed when he encountered a German person on a train.

 

[Richard Scott]

Going back to loco nicknames heard in early years of diesel locos that 45s were also nicknamed Cromptons, I believe was definitely used by Saltley drivers.

 

[D6130]

Going back to loco nicknames heard in early years of diesel locos that 45s were also nicknamed Cromptons, I believe was definitely used by Saltley drivers.

As were the class 33s on the Southern Region but, strangely, the class 26s in Scotland, which also had Crompton Parkinson electrical equipment, didn't seem ever to be known by that nickname.

 

[Cowley]

I called all Class 31s Goyles in the 1980s and 90s. Yes.

Which I thought was something to do with - ‘Gurgle’ ie the noise that they made at times, and ‘Gargoyle’ - the fact that they had a bit of an angry face..?

We also called class 50s ‘Logs’. Which I assume was something to do with the body shape being slightly rounded with the tumblehome and roof etc.

Edit - I’ve also heard the word ‘Churning’ used to describe the high tickover of a 31/4 as it’s sat in a platform heating a train...

 

[Ashley Hill]

Has Shredders for class 33s been mentioned yet? Gronk for 08,SuperGronk for 09s and MegaGronk for 13s. Syphon for 37s,Baby Warship for 22s and Xmas Trees for 56s but the logic for that always failed me!

 

[43096]

Xmas Trees for 56s but the logic for that always failed me!

That was because they had so many lights on the front end, apparently, and not because they spent all their time on depots giving up spares.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

When did the term ‘gen’ become widely used? I’ve always found it an odd one when someone says/writes, “Does anyone have any gen on 1Z23?”, rather than just saying “What’s on 1Z23?”.

 

[High Dyke]

I know who it refers to, but what was the origin of the term 'Veggies'? And it's not those that do not eat meat.

 

[Calthrop]

I called all Class 31s Goyles in the 1980s and 90s. Yes.

Further to the "Goyle" discussion -- I gather that J.K. Rowling is moderately "into", and knowledgeable about, railway lore -- with her being inspired to think of the Hogwarts Express, and so on. In the books, there's a minor-ish bad guy called Goyle: a pupil in Slytherin House. I suppose it would be too fanciful to envisage the Class 31 nickname as having suggested to her, that character's name?

When did the term ‘gen’ become widely used? I’ve always found it an odd one when someone says/writes, “Does anyone have any gen on 1Z23?”, rather than just saying “What’s on 1Z23?”.

Would be grateful for anyone's kind clarification concerning "gen"; which I've long been vaguely aware of as an item of railway-enthusiast jargon, but which wasn't current among my fellow-enthusiasts half a century ago. In the world at large, not just in the gricing community: "gen" has long signified "information, on whatever particular matter". In "any gen on 1Z23?" here, it would seem to be essentially being used thus, i.e. "any info on what's working 1Z23?" -- but it has been my impression that "gen" among railway enthusiasts has (also?) a more specialised meaning, or set of meanings. Elucidation would be much welcomed !

 

[Strathclyder]

Which I thought was something to do with - ‘Gurgle’ ie the noise that they made at times, and ‘Gargoyle’ - the fact that they had a bit of an angry face..?

I always assumed they gained the 'Gargoyle' name because of their slightly ungainly front end (i.e 'looks like a gargoyle'), but now that you mention it, I can see a somewhat angry face there too. The 'Skinhead' ones always seem to look particularly displeased! (linked photo by Martin Loader)

31105 & 31285 Cattybrook 3 June 2007

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would be grateful for anyone's kind clarification concerning "gen"; which I've long been vaguely aware of as an item of railway-enthusiast jargon, but which wasn't current among my fellow-enthusiasts half a century ago. In the world at large, not just in the gricing community: "gen" has long signified "information, on whatever particular matter".

Just means "general information" as far as I am aware.

First used in the Armed forces during WW2, I believe.

 

[D6130]

The early class 24s (D5000-5113) were usually called 'skinheads' by us Scottish spotters, although I remember some of the English guys - especially at Crewe - referring to them as 'roundheads'. All of the class 24s and the first series of 25s (D5151-5175) were often referred to as 'fruit machines'', or 'puggies' in Scotland, due to their BTH controllers with tri-coloured illuminated (green-yellow-red, IIRC) indicator windows beneath the power control handle.

 

[xotGD]

Another couple of nicknames not yet mentioned - Peaks known as Waggons, 40s known as Buckets.

Bashers would use the gen to work out their 'moves'.

If you got some new gen, you might have to 'leap'. You might be 'flapping' if you were trying to make a 'nought-nought' or even a 'minus five' connection.

 

[D6130]

Another couple of nicknames not yet mentioned - Peaks known as Waggons, 40s known as Buckets.

Bashers would use the gen to work out their 'moves'.

If you got some new gen, you might have to 'leap'. You might be 'flapping' if you were trying to make a 'nought-nought' or even a 'minus five' connection.

Funnily enough, some Scottish enthusiasts called the 27s 'buckets'. Can't remember why......maybe it was because of their slightly curved cab ends, or perhaps because a lot of them were full of holes! There were also many generic names for DMUs in various parts of the country: 'bogcarts', 'bugs', 'bug units', 'multis', etc.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

We did not use “gen” in the 1970s. The term crept in the the early 1980s iirc.

 

[Calthrop]

Just means "general information" as far as I am aware.

First used in the Armed forces during WW2, I believe.

Seemingly not much of a specialised railway enthusiasts' meaning, then. (I recall, a few decades now, a young enthusiast whom I briefly met, talking -- rail context -- about a "gen trip"; which baffled me a bit.)

The early class 24s (D5000-5113) were usually called 'skinheads' by us Scottish spotters, although I remember some of the English guys - especially at Crewe - referring to them as 'roundheads'. All of the class 24s and the first series of 25s (D5151-5175) were often referred to as 'fruit machines'', or 'puggies' in Scotland, due to their BTH controllers with tri-coloured illuminated (green-yellow-red, IIRC) indicator windows beneath the power control handle.

My bolding: I gather that "puggie" or just "pug", is additionally, a highly venerable Scottish term in railway contexts -- generally used in olden days, to denote a small steam tank loco. I was once acquainted for a short time with a Scots lad -- not the "gen trip" guy mentioned above -- who was a keen steam preservationist, and a slightly strange individual: now and again he would (a propos of nothing in particular) joyfully screech, fortissimo, "PUGGIES !".

I read, long ago now, a memoir by an elderly enthusiast who had served on the Western Front in the final year of World War I. He wrote of himself and comrades being conveyed by train on one occasion, from one place to another of the front. It was a long, heavy train: was banked for a spell, by an enormous Du Bousquet type articulated double-six-coupled tank loco, which would seem to have been brought in as an emergency measure, from elsewhere in France. Some members of a Scottish regiment were in the same vehicle as the memoirist and his squad: he recounted the Scots' officer referring to the banker as a "Frog pug", which description struck him as quite magnificently inappropriate.

 

[D6130]

Seemingly not much of a specialised railway enthusiasts' meaning, then. (I recall, a few decades now, a young enthusiast whom I briefly met, talking -- rail context -- about a "gen trip"; which baffled me a bit.)



My bolding: I gather that "puggie" or just "pug", is additionally, a highly venerable Scottish term in railway contexts -- generally used in olden days, to denote a small steam tank loco. I was once acquainted for a short time with a Scots lad -- not the "gen trip" guy mentioned above -- who was a keen steam preservationist, and a slightly strange individual: now and again he would (a propos of nothing in particular) joyfully screech, fortissimo, "PUGGIES !".

I read, long ago now, a memoir by an elderly enthusiast who had served on the Western Front in the final year of World War I. He wrote of himself and comrades being conveyed by train on one occasion, from one place to another of the front. It was a long, heavy train: was banked for a spell, by an enormous Du Bousquet type articulated double-six-coupled tank loco, which would seem to have been brought in as an emergency measure, from elsewhere in France. Some members of a Scottish regiment were in the same vehicle as the memoirist and his squad: he recounted the Scots' officer referring to the banker as a "Frog pug", which description struck him as quite magnificently inappropriate.

Quite correct....the term 'pug' is used in Scotland to denote a small tank engine; particularly an 0-4-0 saddle tank engine, often used for shunting in collieries, docks, iron and steel works, etc. (Possibly because most of them bear more than a passing resemblance to a small, squat, flat-nosed dog). However 'puggie' is the Scots term for a fruit machine or 'one-armed bandit'. Perhaps someone could tell us how that nickname came about?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My bolding: I gather that "puggie" or just "pug", is additionally, a highly venerable Scottish term in railway contexts -- generally used in olden days, to denote a small steam tank loco.

Understand that the term 'pug' or 'puggy'/'puggie' in Scottish dialect originally meant something that (facially) resembled a monkey!

Slightly uncertain etymology from there to the word then also meaning a cash dispenser (or indeed a "one arm bandit" gaming machine), but I suppose that it could be asserted that both these latter items have a "face" of sorts.

Or maybe that a monkey is sometimes associated with an organ grinder's machine.

 

[Calthrop]

Understand that the term 'pug' or 'puggy'/'puggie' in Scottish dialect originally meant something that (facially) resembled a monkey!

Slightly uncertain etymology from there to the word then also meaning a cash dispenser (or indeed a "one arm bandit" gaming machine), but I suppose that it could be asserted that both these latter items have a "face" of sorts.

Or maybe that a monkey is sometimes associated with an organ grinder's machine.

Ingenious derivations-musing-on here -- word-making can indeed happen in very convoluted ways ! Yes, the "non-human-primates" reference: I now recall, in the "Flashman" novels: at one point, Flashy is wondering about standing as a potential MP; his obnoxious Scottish father-in-law sneers approximately to the effect that "a pug ape fae the zoological gairdens could get a seat in Parliament in this country, if he wis managed richt".

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Another source I've now seen suggests that the word 'pug' in Scots dialect sometimes additionally means the cash prize kitty in a game of cards, so, something that occasionally pays out; in that regard, perhaps like an ATM or gaming machine!

Where's Susie Dent when you need her?

 

[Calthrop]

Another source I've now seen suggests that the word 'pug' in Scots dialect sometimes additionally means the cash prize kitty in a game of cards, so, something that occasionally pays out; in that regard, perhaps like an ATM or gaming machine!

Where's Susie Dent when you need her?

The plot thickens... it would seem that "pug" is a word with a rather remarkable number of meanings. (I find that the same is true of the word "shag" -- most senses in which it applies, being perfectly clean.)

I don't see much television; am embarrassed to admit that until this exchange, I had never heard of Susie Dent -- have remedied that via Google. With Flashman having shown up, I was at first envisaging S.D. as one of the very numerous members of the female gender who feature in that anti-hero's adventures.

 

[Gloster]

Pug is or was also used to indicate a boxer, although usually one at the lower end of the scale. A slugger rather than a skilful exponent of pugilistic science. It also used to be used for such people who acted as bodyguards or punishers for various criminals. I think it appears several times in the Sherlock Holmes stories. Whether there is any connection with the appearance of the locos, both being small, wide at the shoulders and powerful.

 

[Richard Scott]

Seemingly not much of a specialised railway enthusiasts' meaning, then. (I recall, a few decades now, a young enthusiast whom I briefly met, talking -- rail context -- about a "gen trip"; which baffled me a bit.)

I've heard many people use the term 'gen' who definitely are not enthusiasts.

 

[MrEd]

All 31/0s were skinheads but not all skinheads were 31/0s - about 20 of the early 31/1s (a few of which became 31/4s) also lacked the headcode boxes

Yes, out of the 31/1s, D5520-D5529 (31102-31111) were all ‘Skinheads’ with discs. D5530 (31112) was the first to be built with route indicator boxes, but thereafter D5535 (31117), D5543 (31125), D5547 (31129), D5551 (31133), D5552 (31134), D5555 (31137), D5556 (31138), D5562 (31144) were also disc-fitted ‘Skinheads’. I believe that some of these were converted into 31/4s, D5522 as 31418 in the mid-70s, then 31444/450/461 in the life-extension programme in the mid-80s. 31129 became 461, 31133 became 450, and 137 became 444. 31418 was originally allocated the TOPS number 31104 but it never ran with it.

31418 was unique in having non-standard ETH and only an 80mph maximum speed (all 31s from D5535 onwards were geared for 90mph, and all the other locos selected for 31/4 conversion came from this batch).

 

[DB]

Grid - Class 56, referring to the panels on the front of the BREL-built locos

I assumed it was the side grilles rather than the horn grille?

Zombie - Class 57, referring to their rebuild (I wonder if this one can apply to 69's, too?)

Also 'Bodysnatcher'.

I've seen 'Frankengrid' used for 69s.

 

[DB]

A more recent one - the two Network Rail rebuilt 73s are sometimes referred to as 'the minions' due to their resemblance to the cartoon characters.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A more recent one - the two Network Rail rebuilt 73s are sometimes referred to as 'the minions' due to their resemblance to the cartoon characters.

Those Czech diesel locos are *far* more minion-like than 73s!

 

[Aljanah]

Just means "general information" as far as I am aware.

First used in the Armed forces during WW2, I believe.

I always understood "gen" to be derived from military intelliGENce.

Usually in the form of "duff gen", which is "incorrect information"

Although in a phrse like "gen trip" might mean "genuine" - the excursion is really happening and is not just a rumour...

 

[DB]

Those Czech diesel locos are *far* more minion-like than 73s!

It's not all 73s - just those two particularly.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I seem to remember 57601 being referred to as Purple Ronnie,no idea why. Subsequently other 57s became Ronnies! Again no idea why!