Rail Operations Group

[The Planner]

Rail Operations Group

Couldn't find a mention of this in the search facility. Appears they are looking to be like a driver agency and will train drivers up for hire to TOC/FOCs. Thoughts? Will TOCs take them on or will they prefer their own training regimes and recruitment?

 

[EvoIV]

Oh dear, oh dear. Anyone who has had anything to do with the aviation industry will instantly recognise this for what it is. The exploitation of desperate wannabes appears to finally be coming to the rail industry.

This idea will be sold to rail companies as a way to offload their training costs initially, but with the long term benefit of eventually profiting from new entrants.

Wannabes will be fleeced at every step of the way - £1340 for psychometric testing anyone? They will be asked to pay for their own training. They will probably be offered special finance deals, secured on property. But they won't have a job at the end of it, and they will still need the handling experience, so they will then pay-to-work to gain hours. The train companies benefit because they no longer pay for assessment and training of new drivers and will eventually have people paying them to work for them. This can only drive down T&Cs.

In short, I hope this idea is given the thoroughly cold shoulder it deserves. I may be a cynic but if any encroachment as I describe begins it mustn't be allowed to spread - just look at the aviation industry to see how it ends up. Here's some light reading:

http://www.jetcareers.com/pay-for-trainingjob-programs.html

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/493132-flexicrew-wages.html

"A typical CTC cadet, that hasn't gone bankrupt, has £1200-1400 loan repayments to make a month, maybe £300 a month for a room, £200 for food, £30 for a mobile, £150 for a car. As you can see, it's tighter than a ducks butt. And that's if it goes to plan."

The info about who is behind this company is in the public domain and easily found by the way - he's on LinkedIn.

 

[Lincoln_biker]

This looks extremely dubious. The "prequalification checklist" gave me much to chuckle about whilst scoffing my sarnies, so much so that I only narrowly avoided needing the Heimlich maneuver to remove a somewhat obstrctive piece of ham. It got me thinking and I managed to conjure up a few extras they could add to that list:
*Can you walk and whistle?
*Are you able to bend over without releasing bowel gasses?
*How many cats does my mum have?
*Given that God is infinite, and that the universe is also infinite... would you like a toasted teacake?

 

[AntoniC]

It smacks of what you need to do now BEFORE you can join the Police.

Apparently you have to a Certificate in Policing, which of course you have to pay for.

if you do join this Rail Group will you get a permanent job, or will you become an agency worker ??

Its not good news

 

[BravoGolfMike]

The fact that they don't even tell you how much it will cost under the "How much will it cost FAQ" tells you all you need to know about this. If anyone finds out what they are offering and for what cost, I would be interested to find out.
Even the zero to hero frozen ATPL providers are upfront with the cost, even when though it is upto an eye watering £80,000!

The numerous examples on this forum and elsewhere where people have come from outside the industry to get a trainees place, plus the countless guards and others who get jobs as internals prove that you don't need to spend a fortune to get the career you want.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Rail Operations Group

Couldn't find a mention of this in the search facility. Appears they are looking to be like a driver agency and will train drivers up for hire to TOC/FOCs. Thoughts? Will TOCs take them on or will they prefer their own training regimes and recruitment?

A T


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The numerous examples on this forum and elsewhere where people have come from outside the industry to get a trainees place, plus the countless guards and others who get jobs as internals prove that you don't need to spend a fortune to get the career you want.

Exactly!!

 

[Silv1983]

There's little cause for alarm. The website is very amateurish and wouldn't suprise me if it was thrown together by someone looking to "test" the market. There isn't even an office address or landline.
I wouldn't even expect aslef to be concerned as no TOC in it's right mind would for go their own rigorous selection, training and assessment proceedures and let a temp drive 300 of their passengers around with an assurance of route and traction knowledge from an outside agency.

 

[Pumbaa]

Some of the names behind it are surprising. Not entirely sure I'm glad to see one of then pop up again.

It may look amateur-ish, but I reckon it's got legs. As the RDG postulates over a central pot for training drivers, and the Euro regs finally take hold over here, it may clobber some stakeholders to finally agreeing to move forward with the central training school proposals.

 

[Monty]

After a quick glance over the site what appears to me is that it's a scheme that preys on the dreams of others who want to become Train Drivers, and are duped into believing they will have the edge in applying for driving jobs if they go through the process with them. Avoid at all costs.

 

[DD]

Some of the names behind it are surprising. Not entirely sure I'm glad to see one of then pop up again.
.

Why's that? I don't know any of the names

 

[Beveridges]

Seems horrendously expensive.

Why pay £1340 for the psycho tests with these scheme when you can pay around £200 and get them private?

 

[Monty]

Seems horrendously expensive.

Why pay £1340 for the psycho tests with these scheme when you can pay around £200 and get them private?

I thought that too, doesn't DB Schenker periodically run assessment courses where candidates pay for their own assessments? Isn't that for about £200?

 

[A-driver]

Seems horrendously expensive.

Why pay £1340 for the psycho tests with these scheme when you can pay around £200 and get them private?

Because apparently this new company will then train you and keep you on their books incase they ever get any work for you. So you then don't need to apply for jobs afterwards. This means that desperate people who haven't thought it through will see it as an 'investment in their future', pay it and then wonder why they still arnt earning 45k a year as a driver but having to pay hundreds a year out of their own pockets instead to keep up their competency.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[E&W Lucas]

Because apparently this new company will then train you and keep you on their books incase they ever get any work for you. So you then don't need to apply for jobs afterwards. This means that desperate people who haven't thought it through will see it as an 'investment in their future', pay it and then wonder why they still arnt earning 45k a year as a driver but having to pay hundreds a year out of their own pockets instead to keep up their competency.

Never mind the £1340 to sit the psychometric, and have an interview for a job that doesn't exist, I'm tempted to get a quote for the whole process!
Approx ten weeks worth of cab experience, and c 200 hours of train handling. Train and crew hire, track access charges..... That is going to be eye watering.

The earning potential as a driver is good, but it isn't THAT high, especially when you allow for 40% tax, loss of Tax Credits and Child Benefit, significant monthly contribution to pension, etc, etc. Again, go into it with your eyes open!

 

[Beveridges]

The earning potential as a driver is good, but it isn't THAT high, especially when you allow for 40% tax, loss of Tax Credits and Child Benefit, significant monthly contribution to pension, etc, etc. Again, go into it with your eyes open!

Especially when some TOC's such as Northern pay a lower salary for the first 3 years, it's hardly an "instant £45k" like some people may believe

 

[DD]

Never mind the £1340 to sit the psychometric, and have an interview for a job that doesn't exist, I'm tempted to get a quote for the whole process!
Approx ten weeks worth of cab experience, and c 200 hours of train handling. Train and crew hire, track access charges..... That is going to be eye watering.

The earning potential as a driver is good, but it isn't THAT high, especially when you allow for 40% tax, loss of Tax Credits and Child Benefit, significant monthly contribution to pension, etc, etc. Again, go into it with your eyes open!

And all your rules, traction, PTS etc you wont be getting paid for it while you learn either!

 

[Beveridges]

Can see people going into this as an alternative to University.

After all, University now costs £36k (up to BSc level) or £54k (up to MSc level) and there's no job at the end of it.

I can see the similarities.

 

[JAMBO]

An alternative to uni?! If there daft enough,Law degree or train drivers licence. No comparison really is there.

 

[Beveridges]

Train drivers license, or useless IT or media studies degree?

 

[JAMBO]

That's why you would get a good professional qualification like in law or medicine. Didnt do my mrs any harm, she's in an excellent well paid job, so her degree was well worth the money.

 

[E&W Lucas]

And all your rules, traction, PTS etc you wont be getting paid for it while you learn either!

The reality, is that it takes about 10 - 12 months, full time, to become a train driver. So you've not only got to pay out the undefined amount for training, you also lose a year's worth of wages too!

 

[Beveridges]

Yes it looks bad but so is a Degree, you in fact lose 3 years wages to get a BSc or 5 years to get an MSc.

I'm saying if people pay for Degrees they will pay for this, not eveyone who does a Degree does it in a subject that will even lead to a job.

 

[AeroSpace]

The difference is that you can get cheap loans for university. So it's not as expensive as it seems.

 

[A-driver]

Yes it looks bad but so is a Degree, you in fact lose 3 years wages to get a BSc or 5 years to get an MSc.

I'm saying if people pay for Degrees they will pay for this, not eveyone who does a Degree does it in a subject that will even lead to a job.

You can't compare a degree to training for a job. A degree is generally aimed at school leavers without the financial considerations of those who are later in life (although you do get mature students but they will have other financial options). That is why most students will at least start by living in halls, take loans and get part time jobs on the side.

Training for a Job is completely different and I can't see why you keep comparing the 2. If you take time out to get a degree you can then take it to numerous employers to make your own career out if it. If you train as a train driver you only have the one career option and whilst I'm not saying train driver training is easy, a 3 year degree course is certainly more work requiring far more 'out of hours' work (I have done both).

 

[TDK]

This looks like a professional outfit who are serious in what plan to accomplish, great idea but at the cost of people who have either failed the tests (free of chare with any company) or need to get into the grade so badly would spend a fortune to get qualified lining the pockets of the founders.

You do need to be careful on what you comment on this company especially mentioning names and comments that are untrue.

Anyone thinking of using them PM me for an honest opinion!

 

[daddy_badger]

can't see this catching on, take a look at the websites offering you a significant upperhand of passing the application sift right through the assessments and interviews. those who are desperate and significantly well off may go ahead for this process.

 

[E&W Lucas]

This looks like a professional outfit who are serious in what plan to accomplish, great idea but at the cost of people who have either failed the tests (free of chare with any company) or need to get into the grade so badly would spend a fortune to get qualified lining the pockets of the founders.

You do need to be careful on what you comment on this company especially mentioning names and comments that are untrue.

Anyone thinking of using them PM me for an honest opinion!

Seconded. I have come across one of the people behind it, and they are a highly credible individual. I think this is a serious proposal, in all honesty, probably more aimed at being an outsourced training provider, with "Do it Yourself" training being offered, as an additional option.

Most likely people to work for them - retired drivers, a la WCR. Probably after a chunk of the same market too. Tamper conducting, etc.

 

[Firestarter]

So this is legit then?