Rail Study to consider linking Leeds to Edinburgh using Settle to Carlisle

[47802]

Genuine question here for those who promote the idea. It seem to be accepted wisdom that a restored route wouldn't be any quicker than the current offerings, so one of the arguments is that it would be good for diversions when the main routes are closed.

Given the current franchise incumbents don't seem too enamoured with keeping up route knowledge on current potential diversionary routes such as via little north western what evidence is there to suggest they would be clambering over themselves to learn a new route such as this?

The diversion stuff is nonsense and of course as you say some TOC carn't be arsed diversion wise these days, I notice May day weekend Vermin were not diverting via the S&C buses instead.

 

[The Planner]

Doubt Virgin have anyone left that sign it anyway after the closure.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Post of the week!

I'm sorry - I forgot the

I'll edit that now

In truth, I think campaigning to re-open the Waverley is probably less bonkers than the Port Road or Carmarthen to nowhere, but Iw ouold like to know who is funding this 'study' ?

The money would be far better spent on .. I dunno, supporting a better Sunday service running Carlisle to Whitehaven or something. Or maybe Blackburn - Hellifield. Even if only on a temporary basis.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have a nasty feeling those of us North of the border are paying for it.

If not then yes bring on spending on something better, a full Sunday service, maybe 1 train in the morning and 1 in the afternoon Carlisle Barrow return? Would be used I think

 

[70014IronDuke]

I have a nasty feeling those of us North of the border are paying for it.

If not then yes bring on spending on something better, a full Sunday service, maybe 1 train in the morning and 1 in the afternoon Carlisle Barrow return? Would be used I think

If its the Scots spending the money - and it therefore needs to be spent in that bonnie land - I'd advocate supporting a) either a better G&SW Sunday service or b) stopping 3 TPE services each way daily at Carstairs to give the place some semblance of a service south to Carlisle and Manchester Airport.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Both excillent ideas. The GSW Sunday, in fact no every day timetable is shocking and the additionall TPE calls seam like a good shout

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm sorry - I forgot the

I'll edit that now

In truth, I think campaigning to re-open the Waverley is probably less bonkers than the Port Road or Carmarthen to nowhere, but Iw ouold like to know who is funding this 'study' ?

Transport Scotland are definitely funding it. As I posted earlier in this thread this is just the S&C hitching a ride on the same study that was discussed last month

 

[Altnabreac]

I'm sorry - I forgot the

I'll edit that now

In truth, I think campaigning to re-open the Waverley is probably less bonkers than the Port Road or Carmarthen to nowhere, but Iw ouold like to know who is funding this 'study' ?

The money would be far better spent on .. I dunno, supporting a better Sunday service running Carlisle to Whitehaven or something. Or maybe Blackburn - Hellifield. Even if only on a temporary basis.

To be fair to the study it is a multi modal study looking at Transport needs across the Scottish Borders.

So it will examine things like dualling the A1 between Dunbar and Berwick, road improvements on the A7 and A68, extending Borders rail to Hawick and of course the full Borders Rail reopening option.

If some of these options prove to have a decent BCR and some have a shockingly poor one then it just helps to define the priorities and means no one can complain their pet scheme has not been fairly assessed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-39553993

 

[Blindtraveler]

O/T I know but dueling the A1 would get my vote out of that lot, should we find ouselves in a situation where theres one pot of money for one project

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There was serious funding in CP4 for "the Severn day Railway" - a chunk of it was underspent - but the idea was to identify key routes to keep people moving and stop daft things like both Anglo-Scottish routes being closed at the same time (for eng ops) - so for example if north of Carlisle was shut on WCML then the GSW and the Newcastle route would be open to allow diversions. I personally got some money out of it to allow freight W10 clearances north of Newcastle (to Carstairs via Edinburgh) to allow intermodal etc freight to continue.

In reality - the S+C does not really play a part in this - much though that people love the idea of (empty or nearly empty) 390's and 221;s bravely attacking the gradients up to Ais Gill....

 

[najaB]

In reality - the S+C does not really play a part in this - much though that people love the idea of (empty or nearly empty) 390's and 221;s bravely attacking the gradients up to Ais Gill....

A 390 wouldn't get very far up those hills...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A 390 wouldn't get very far up those hills...

After 36+ years as a railway manager I can work that out thanks - - they used to drag them with 57's , of which the "paid for" Virgin ones are used elsewhere ...

Things like SLW on the WCML etc and other diversions sort of cover the ground , though it will never, ever be perfect.

VWC used to have a light engine route refresher weekly on the GSW - which at one time was often cancelled to give a coal train a path.

 

[najaB]

After 36+ years as a railway manager I can work that out thanks

Sorry, I forgot the smilie.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Sorry, I forgot the smilie.

No offence one hopes

(as part of the WCML "recovery" plan the SRA paid for these extra 57's - so the moment is really , hopefully past , as the pre 2004 - 208 programme of heavy track replacement north of Preston is hopefully done , along with the switch and crossing replacements - hence not so much need to go off route)

We had some awful planning meetings about this , trust me.

One of the "deals" was to get enough access to run "full service" on Sundays after 1300 or so.

 

[Condor7]

I challenged a similar statement on another thread recently.
Don't get me wrong freight traffic is no where near what it used to be, but there is more than some seem to think.

There are two trains a day from Arcow quarry (one out and one back)
The daily (MX) Hull to Kirkby Thore (one out one back)
The (MWFO) Mossend to Clitheroe (one out one back)
The (MWFO) Drax to Killock coal
The (MO) Crewe to Carlisle engineers
Although early days this week saw the (WFO) Carlisle to Chirk logs return on the Wednesday.

The MX Carlisle to Crewe has now also returned to the S&C from this week.

 

[A0]

The diversion stuff is nonsense and of course as you say some TOC carn't be arsed diversion wise these days, I notice May day weekend Vermin were not diverting via the S&C buses instead.

Perhaps when the WCML closures were being planned it was unclear whether the S&C would have been open again? After all it was closed for a considerable time following the landslip. And planned BH works on mainlines such as the WCML are planned many months in advance.

 

[70014IronDuke]

To be fair to the study it is a multi modal study looking at Transport needs across the Scottish Borders.

So it will examine things like dualling the A1 between Dunbar and Berwick, road improvements on the A7 and A68, extending Borders rail to Hawick and of course the full Borders Rail reopening option.

If some of these options prove to have a decent BCR and some have a shockingly poor one then it just helps to define the priorities and means no one can complain their pet scheme has not been fairly assessed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-39553993

OK - fair points. I think the article linking the S&C with the whole caboodle was just too fanciful.

 

[DarloRich]

insert head shake icon here: